Predicting the future by looking at the past. (MGS specific)

[Sketcz]

Hi all

Anyone else here a big fan of the Metal Gear series?
I am, and have completed with the exception of the C64 version, all Metal gear games in the series.

My favourites being in order:
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - MSX2
Metal Gear - MSX
Snakes Revenge - NES

I also liked MGS1 but not 2.

Now, my point is this:
When people were getting all excited over MGS before it was released on PSX, and then MGS2, someone with a little forsight, could have easily predicted a large quantity of the content that would be found within:

A tanker with a meta gear onboard
the camera
running up stairs being chased
The animorphic keycard
hiding in boxes
traitorous allies
dressing up as enemy soldiers
infiltrating womans toilets AGAIN. (I swear, at least 4 MG games have had this in them now, has Kojima got a fetish?)
holes in floors
the watery swimming intro (lifted right out of MG1 into MGS1)
and a whole lot else to do with plot lines, Frank Yeagers story was very detailed for example in MG2SS

Anyway, Im sure you can think of alot more details, if youve played the previous installments. (IMO MG2SS actually surpasses MGS1 and 2, in terms of fun and plot, but thats just me)

Anyway, as is clear from previous games, Kojima likes to recycle his ideas, (witness the recycling going on in Snatcher and Policenauts.)

So, based on past examples of MGS not having very much new content at all, and following this theory, it should be possible to predict a large ammmount of MGS3 content.

So, lets go shall we, I predict:

Different types of rations, possibly needing to use say the sugar from one kind, in order to neutralise something. Or maybe the bread in another to gain an animals trust.

The usage of owls, possibly a live pet owl. More animal befriending

the usage of live snakes, (this was used before anyway, and seems possible based on video footage)

The return of the Hanoi Hilton tap code: 34444313004275133143
Decipher that if you can.

Listening to taps, maybe even tapping yourself. You have to tap the X button, in the right order, to give instructions to someone. (this would rock)

Carrier pidgeons, that carry infromation. Such as new radio frequencies or tap code messages.

Sonic radar traps.

The appearance of a train/trams?

The use of a glider and other vehicles

the use of "mice" or autonamous moving explosives

Usage of national anthem to get peoples attention

Music radio station via codec

Friendly NPC's (like the orphans from MG2SS)

Oxygen equipment

Tracking a green berret soldier through the jungle. (it was done in MG2SS, and with the jungle setting for MGS3, I would bet BIG money on some serious tracking going on. Imagine stalking a group of soldiers for days, as they get slowly closer to their base. you cant kill them, because then theyd be on alert, so you travel, hanging back, trying to survive on food you find in the jungle, or maybe their remains they discard.)

More videogame in jokes. MG2SS had an MSX cartridge, MGS had a PSX.
Maybe MGS3 will have a joke taking the piss out of a big green gaming system?

Big Boss, in robotic Snatcher form. (might even have old Randam Hajile in there, they did have Modnar after all in previous agmes)

I predict big boss making an appearance and you fighting him, in a reconstructed form.

************

Thse are of course, just my theories, and if you havent played previous games in the MG series, or any of kojimas other games, youll most likely think Im nuts. heck, maybe you think Im nuts already?

Still, the evidence is all there, HK reuses alot of ideas, and there is every possibility, that they will be re-used in MGS3.

Any other theories? Do you like the proposed ideas? I quite like the sound of hanoi hilton code coming back.

Has anyone else played the previous MG games?
They are excellent.

PS:
oh, and if we look at gaming back in 83, doesnt it resemble today? Excess games being released, not enough bought, 1000's buried in Nevada, lo and behold, the whole industry crashes.

Well, we havent crashed yet, but if things continue like they did in 83, who knows?

[M?bius_One]

Hi all

Anyone else here a big fan of the Metal Gear series?

Yes, I think they are the among the best games on the PS1/2.

(spoiler alert for MGS2)
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If you havn't played through MGS2 then near the end, you're missing a whole bunch subtle and not-so-subtle back-references and in-jokes to ALL the prequel MGS games. Some of these I didn't get ('Your mission is to infiltrade the forteress Galaude...') because I assumed they are from the MSX games. It's quite funny actually.

I am, and have completed with the exception of the C64 version, all Metal gear games in the series.

My favourites being in order:
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - MSX2
Metal Gear - MSX
Snakes Revenge - NES

I also liked MGS1 but not 2.

I've only played MGS1 and I was obsessive enough to complete the whole VR Missions disc with 100%.

Now, my point is this:
When people were getting all excited over MGS before it was released on PSX, and then MGS2, someone with a little forsight, could have easily predicted a large quantity of the content that would be found within:

A tanker with a meta gear onboard
the camera
running up stairs being chased
The animorphic keycard
hiding in boxes
traitorous allies
dressing up as enemy soldiers
infiltrating womans toilets AGAIN. (I swear, at least 4 MG games have had this in them now, has Kojima got a fetish?)
holes in floors
the watery swimming intro (lifted right out of MG1 into MGS1)
and a whole lot else to do with plot lines, Frank Yeagers story was very detailed for example in MG2SS

Quite a list, but what about crawling through air ducts, controlling a remote control missile, smoking cigs to detect laser beams, resisting torture and using drugs to steady aim?

Anyway, Im sure you can think of alot more details, if youve played the previous installments. (IMO MG2SS actually surpasses MGS1 and 2, in terms of fun and plot, but thats just me)

Anyway, as is clear from previous games, Kojima likes to recycle his ideas, (witness the recycling going on in Snatcher and Policenauts.)

Yep, but how collectable is Policenauts? I have the Japanese PSX version that I want to unload.

So, based on past examples of MGS not having very much new content at all, and following this theory, it should be possible to predict a large ammmount of MGS3 content.

So, lets go shall we, I predict:

Different types of rations, possibly needing to use say the sugar from one kind, in order to neutralise something. Or maybe the bread in another to gain an animals trust.

The usage of owls, possibly a live pet owl.

LOL!

More animal befriending

the usage of live snakes, (this was used before anyway, and seems possible based on video footage)

I don't know about that but in MGS1 you needed to "equip" Sniper Wolf's hankerchief to befriend her wolves. So... possibly.

By the way, I understand that MGS3 is going to be set in the 60's so we'll definitely see the use of drugs other than to steady aim.

The return of the Hanoi Hilton tap code: 34444313004275133143
Decipher that if you can.

Listening to taps, maybe even tapping yourself. You have to tap the X button, in the right order, to give instructions to someone. (this would rock)

Carrier pidgeons, that carry infromation. Such as new radio frequencies or tap code messages.

Sonic radar traps.

The appearance of a train/trams?

The use of a glider and other vehicles

the use of "mice" or autonamous moving explosives

Usage of national anthem to get peoples attention

Music radio station via codec

Friendly NPC's (like the orphans from MG2SS)

Oxygen equipment

Tracking a green berret soldier through the jungle. (it was done in MG2SS, and with the jungle setting for MGS3, I would bet BIG money on some serious tracking going on. Imagine stalking a group of soldiers for days, as they get slowly closer to their base. you cant kill them, because then theyd be on alert, so you travel, hanging back, trying to survive on food you find in the jungle, or maybe their remains they discard.)

Interesting idea's. How about we have Solid Snake to encounter the Predator creature deep in the jungle, that would make a good battle. Anyway, MGS2 had an NPC element too it, such as taking Emma Emmerich through the flooded corridors.

More videogame in jokes. MG2SS had an MSX cartridge, MGS had a PSX.
Maybe MGS3 will have a joke taking the piss out of a big green gaming system?

See my comment above about in-jokes in MGS2

Big Boss, in robotic Snatcher form. (might even have old Randam Hajile in there, they did have Modnar after all in previous agmes)

I predict big boss making an appearance and you fighting him, in a reconstructed form.

MGS2 benefits from a great professional-level screenplay but I think it's hampered by "legacy names", 'Big Boss' just sounds a bit silly.

************

Thse are of course, just my theories, and if you havent played previous games in the MG series, or any of kojimas other games, youll most likely think Im nuts. heck, maybe you think Im nuts already?

I just think you've played them too much, as for me - guilty as charged.

Still, the evidence is all there, HK reuses alot of ideas, and there is every possibility, that they will be re-used in MGS3.

Any other theories? Do you like the proposed ideas? I quite like the sound of hanoi hilton code coming back.

Has anyone else played the previous MG games?
They are excellent.

You should check out the Footage section of the Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 DVD. Kojima & Co went to NY to do research, they got a terrorism expert to develop the 'Clearing' routine and soldier behavior. I expect the same high production values in MGS3 and some new fresh idea's.

PS:
oh, and if we look at gaming back in 83, doesnt it resemble today? Excess games being released, not enough bought, 1000's buried in Nevada, lo and behold, the whole industry crashes.

Well, we havent crashed yet, but if things continue like they did in 83, who knows?

CD's are easier to bury than a truckload of Atari ET carts. Quality control is higher than ever these days, the only way it will crash is if they let standards slip.

[lordcookie]

I think it is safe to say that there will be lots of overblown cutscenes. I thought I would get that in before anyone else did.

[Sketcz]

Before I say anything else, go right now and get an MSX2 emulator, and play Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake, youll thank me later.

If you havn't played through MGS2 then near the end, you're missing a whole bunch subtle and not-so-subtle back-references and in-jokes to ALL the prequel MGS games. Some of these I didn't get ('Your mission is to infiltrade the forteress Galaude...') because I assumed they are from the MSX games. It's quite funny actually.

Yes, all from the MSX games, and some PSX footage as well. I enjoyed that alot more, because i was like, "hey! I know that bit!"
GO and play the MSX versions, they are good.

Also, Greyfoxes death in MGS1 is so much more emotional and sad, once you know his and snakes history, they were buddies in arms, the whole love triangle with another woman, Greyfoxes betrayel by snakes superiors, they understood each other, saved each others lives. More emotional than the death of Aeris IMO. Very sad once you know the history.

Quite a list, but what about crawling through air ducts, controlling a remote control missile, smoking cigs to detect laser beams, resisting torture and using drugs to steady aim?

Apart from the resisting torture, all that was used. Cigarettes have been in ALL metal gear games. Nikita missiles were a HUGE part of previous games, air ducts too, in MG2:SS. I didnt feel like listing everything. But there is alot.

Yep, but how collectable is Policenauts? I have the Japanese PSX version that I want to unload.

Not as collectable as the Saturn version I believe. I say keep it, its a nice bit of history, and it also has Meryl in it! (check out her hair! she certainly developed after Shadow Moses)

The usage of owls, possibly a live pet owl.

LOL!

Im dead serious, animals played a big part in MG2:SS on the MSX2, carrier pidgeons, owls, snakes, rates etc.
Snake kept a baby owl with him for alot of the adventure, it was needed to distract guards. There was also a snake you carried with you, and it tried to eat your rations.
Just like the sea louse.

Havent I enticed you enough already? Go play MG2SS already!


[quotes]
Interesting idea's. How about we have Solid Snake to encounter the Predator creature deep in the jungle, that would make a good battle. Anyway, MGS2 had an NPC element too it, such as taking Emma Emmerich through the flooded corridors.
[/quote]

Invisibility has been in the MG series ALOT.
In MG2:SS there was a mercenary you had to kill, and he would go invisible like the predator, and hide in long grass. I used to shoot wildly in all directions, so yes, definetly there may be a Predator style battle in 3, actually, thats a damned good prediction! Im impressed.

There was also NPC's in previous MG games. In MG2:SS (damn, I keep mentioning that, oh well, I guess I am fanboy afterall ), there were orphans walking around, quite possibly Raiden may have been there, who knows. But Big Boss took them all in, and was helping them and training them up. They were friendly and helped you out, and if you killed them, it was game over, or maybe you couldnt kill them? My memory is going.

In Snakes Revenge, you used drugs to get the truth out of captured enemies.



Anyway, Id recomend you go out and try the following games in this order, if you have the time:

Metal gear 2 : Solid Snake - MSX2 (get the translated version, its a home translation, but one of the best Ive seen, also my favourite MG game.)

Metal Gear - MSX

Snakes Revenge - NES (be warned, many hate this, play this last or you may be dissapointed)

Metal gear - NES (just for fun, if you feel up to it, slog through the tougher and not as good NES version, its different enough to the MSX version to warrant play, but isnt as polished, and key sections are missing)

None of my predictions were my ideas, they were all based on what has gone before, I dont to want to sound like some clarevoyant. Those were all that had been in previous games.


Better put this in, incase the admins get mad:In case anyone has any objections to the use of emulators and roms, this is the only way sadly, to play most of the previous MG games, since several werent even translated.
And the Japanese version of MG2SS is so expensive and rare, I dont think its ever been on ebay.
So be warned, its probably very illegal to play these old MSX classics, but they are thourally enjoyable, especially if you were a fan of previous games.
I had no moral objections, and they are worth tracking down, just dont ask for help.

[M?bius_One]

Before I say anything else, go right now and get an MSX2 emulator, and play Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake, youll thank me later.

Your enthusiasm is infectious, so I'll check it out.

Does anyone else try to play MGS2 as non-violently as possible? I have a serious aversion to using the guns. I prefer tranquilizers or fisticuffs where ever possible.

<stuff about grey fox>

I wondered at the history of the Ninja and Snake. I thought they just put him into MGS1 for the coolness-factor. Seeing "him" on MGS2 was a suprise.

Not as collectable as the Saturn version I believe. I say keep it, its a nice bit of history, and it also has Meryl in it! (check out her hair! she certainly developed after Shadow Moses)

I didn't know that. I think I'll sell it as I only want to keep games that I have some sypathetic attachment to.

The usage of owls, possibly a live pet owl.

LOL!

Im dead serious, animals played a big part in MG2:SS on the MSX2, carrier pidgeons, owls, snakes, rates etc.

I know, it's just that I found that sentence hilarious.

Snake kept a baby owl with him for alot of the adventure, it was needed to distract guards. There was also a snake you carried with you, and it tried to eat your rations.
Just like the sea louse.

An owl would be interesting, there was a parrot in MGS2 for a short while but you couldn't do anything useful with it. Animals in MGS2 are just there to hinder you, eg. slipping up while walking over seagull poo.
I didn't realize the sea louse eat away your rations, thats a clever idea. I normally chase them away using the coolant spray.

Invisibility has been in the MG series ALOT.
In MG2:SS there was a mercenary you had to kill, and he would go invisible like the predator, and hide in long grass. I used to shoot wildly in all directions, so yes, definetly there may be a Predator style battle in 3, actually, thats a damned good prediction! Im impressed.

I was being facetious. Invisibility means nothing if you have thermographic goggles!

Metal gear - NES (just for fun, if you feel up to it, slog through the tougher and not as good NES version, its different enough to the MSX version to warrant play, but isnt as polished, and key sections are missing)

Many, many years ago when I used to collect Marvel US comics, I remember seeing NES Metal Gear ads on the back page. I thought it was cool the way you had so many items at your disposal. The nearest I got to Metal Gear was Sabotuer on the Spectrum.

[Sketcz]

I see MGS3 has been released, so decided to bump this predictions topic.

Posted this nearly a year ago:

18-12-2003, 01:46 PM

Has any of it come true?
Or was it all nonsense?

Just tell me... are there owls, and do you have different ration types in MGS3?

[Kaladron]

Just one thing...C64 version? You gotta be kidding me?

[Sketcz]

Nope. Tape loading and all.

Basically a port of the NES version, except they actually corrected all the bad spelling, apparently.

There is also a PC version, again a NES port, available from a certain PC games site that represents the underdogs of gaming.

Pity they are NES ports, since I really liked the MSX original. (many people argue it superior, but I regard the NES one as more a remixed version)

[Mayhem]

Tape? Just disk to my knowledge, and US only. Complete original copies go for nearly $100 on eBay as it's quite rare. And sadly even I don't have a copy. Just content to play it in emulator form for now.

Konami released quite a few games on the C64: Jailbreak, Nemesis, Simpsons Arcade, Metal Gear, Gryzor, Castlevania to name a few...

[Duddyroar]

Sorry but Snake's Revenge was a real stinker.

[Kaladron]

Tape? Just disk to my knowledge, and US only. Complete original copies go for nearly $100 on eBay as it's quite rare. And sadly even I don't have a copy. Just content to play it in emulator form for now.

Konami released quite a few games on the C64: Jailbreak, Nemesis, Simpsons Arcade, Metal Gear, Gryzor, Castlevania to name a few...

I knew about quite a few of those conversions but I'd never heard of the Metal Gear one: I've learnt something new again. Incidently, as a kid I was convinced you could get Simpsons Arcade on the C64 but the guy in my local games shop (Microbyte) told my Dad that it didn't exist and I had to make do with Bart Vs The Space Mutants that xmas.