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    Police Fixed Penalty Notices

    Anybody know anything about these and whether they show up on the PNC or CRB checks?

    Long story (short). A friend of mine walked out of a shop with an empty DVD case from the shelves by accident. He had intended to buy it, purchased a couple of other DVD's and completely forgot he had the empty case still on him. The store detectives stopped him and asked him back into the shop and then called the police. The police issued a fixed penalty notice (£80) on the spot which he has since paid.

    As there was no caution, conviction, trip to the police station etc. I was wondering if the offence would show up on his record? He has never been in trouble with the police before and has no other offences.

    #2
    That's what I would have said though.

    Comment


      #3
      Technically if you pay the fine then that's the end of matter and there's no criminal record.

      I say technically because the rozzers do record it on their PNC database, although it will also record that the FPN has been paid and is therefore spent. Dunno if it would come up in a CRB check, but it might.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Spatial101 View Post
        Technically if you pay the fine then that's the end of matter and there's no criminal record.

        I say technically because the rozzers do record it on their PNC database, although it will also record that the FPN has been paid and is therefore spent. Dunno if it would come up in a CRB check, but it might.

        It does come up on a CRB check, used to work in Crime Management Dept updating PNC for the police a few years ago, A FPN is classed as a criminal conviction so it will show up unfortunatey for him. All a FPN is is a way to circumvent court but usually its used for small offences, Drunk and Disorderly etc, some use it if it would not stand up in a court as its an easy win (as you have to admit guilt for a FPN to be issued If its within 28 days (if my memory serves me right) he can appeal but he will have to go to court to do it.

        When a FPN is paid that is dealt with by a court not the police so its a totally seperate thing to the PNC there is nowhere on PNC that says if it has been paid or not literally the offence and the number i.e. shoplifting, (2 digit number/ 1 alpha charachter - number sequence) 20/b/80055623 for an example.

        But please dont take what i say as gospel i left that organisation in 2007/8 so it might have changed since then but i doubt it
        Last edited by ETC; 26-03-2009, 00:02.

        Comment


          #5
          Can anyone explain why you have to carry a bit of paper around with you that warns the world that you have committed the heinous crime of going 5mph over a speed limit (I've not got any points and never had - just saying), but you don't have to carry one around saying you are a murderer (I've never murdered anyone either) or whatever? In fact your criminal record even gets hidden from people in some situation, whereas some employers ask if you have any points before you join the company.

          Isn't that totally warped?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by evilthecatuk View Post
            It does come up on a CRB check, used to work in Crime Management Dept updating PNC for the police a few years ago, A FPN is classed as a criminal conviction so it will show up unfortunatey for him. All a FPN is is a way to circumvent court but usually its used for small offences, Drunk and Disorderly etc, some use it if it would not stand up in a court as its an easy win (as you have to admit guilt for a FPN to be issued If its within 28 days (if my memory serves me right) he can appeal but he will have to go to court to do it.

            When a FPN is paid that is dealt with by a court not the police so its a totally seperate thing to the PNC there is nowhere on PNC that says if it has been paid or not literally the offence and the number i.e. shoplifting, (2 digit number/ 1 alpha charachter - number sequence) 20/b/80055623 for an example.

            But please dont take what i say as gospel i left that organisation in 2007/8 so it might have changed since then but i doubt it
            Thanks for the info. My mate says the police told him it would not show up on job searches by empolyees etc and the information would only be held within the local constabulary.

            Also on the back of the FPN it says ' Payment of the FPN involves no admission of guilt and will not result in a record of criminal conviction being used against you' And 'a record of this notice will be kept in the interest of justice for admin purposes'
            Last edited by Unwell Cat; 26-03-2009, 07:40.

            Comment


              #7
              Whether the employers actually check the CRB is a different matter! They might get you to sign a declaration but I'd bet 90% don't follow it up. I'm not suggesting your friend lie though obviously!

              Comment


                #8
                If it's a public body you're working for they most certainly will. It's built in to their systems now.

                And if it involves working with vulnerable groups or kiddies then that's a definite too.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unwell Cat View Post
                  A friend of mine walked out of a shop with an empty DVD case from the shelves by accident.
                  Yeah sure, a friend of yours, Unwell Cat?! Come on mate, 'fess up!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unwell Cat View Post
                    Thanks for the info. My mate says the police told him it would not show up on job searches by empolyees etc and the information would only be held within the local constabulary.

                    Also on the back of the FPN it says ' Payment of the FPN involves no admission of guilt and will not result in a record of criminal conviction being used against you' And 'a record of this notice will be kept in the interest of justice for admin purposes'

                    It may well have changed since i left, I do know some FPN's are classed as NRO's (non-recordable offences) such as the one Charles was talking about they do not go on PNC, (they are usually £30, for minor traffic offences), but usually the £80 offences Drunk + D, Shoplifting, S5 public order, they do go on. I have no idea what the local police are talking about if its on PNC its National hence the "N" for national. For the CRB im pretty sure they do show up on an Enhanced CRB but maybe not on a Standard Disclosure, I have a friend that still works there I can try emailing them for clarification if you like (She works in the department that does the checks / Not Crb but similar)
                    Last edited by ETC; 26-03-2009, 10:56.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      just looked it up he is indeed buggered

                      XNOTIFIABLE
                      XRECORDABLEOFFENCE(£80)


                      XXTheft (retail) under £200

                      (S1 Theft Act 1968) DA12


                      5.8. When the PND is received by the CTO a copy will be faxed to FIB to allow them to update 1837A details onto PNC.

                      Technically a recordable offence is not the end of the world as a conviction is as the main difference is that it does not take any time to be classed as a "spent" conviction, think of it as a slightly more severe caution with a financial penalty as opposed to a time penalty

                      (I took this from the public domain so its not breaking any laws to show it here)
                      Last edited by ETC; 26-03-2009, 11:01.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Moral of the story: never accept a fixed penatly anything. Like another poster said, nine times out of ten they issue one knowing you won't contest it. It's the same with FPNs when you get caught speeding by mobile police cameras / radar guns etc. If you challenge it they nearly always either drop the case or the rozzers who issued it just don't turn up in court (and who could blame them) so you'll get off.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by evilthecatuk View Post
                          It may well have changed since i left, I do know some FPN's are classed as NRO's (non-recordable offences) such as the one Charles was talking about they do not go on PNC, (they are usually £30, for minor traffic offences), but usually the £80 offences Drunk + D, Shoplifting, S5 public order, they do go on. I have no idea what the local police are talking about if its on PNC its National hence the "N" for national. For the CRB im pretty sure they do show up on an Enhanced CRB but maybe not on a Standard Disclosure, I have a friend that still works there I can try emailing them for clarification if you like (She works in the department that does the checks / Not Crb but similar)
                          That would be useful if you could find out if they only show on enhanced CRB checks, thanks.
                          Last edited by Unwell Cat; 26-03-2009, 12:23.

                          Comment


                            #14


                            A standard check by a company with the criminal records bureau will not reveal any penalty notices issued to an individual. Such information will only be disclosed under the “enhanced” check.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unwell Cat View Post
                              http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index...ices_for_theft

                              A standard check by a company with the criminal records bureau will not reveal any penalty notices issued to an individual. Such information will only be disclosed under the “enhanced” check.

                              my email from my friend pretty much clarifies this he will be ok unless he goes for a job in the NHS, Police Service or with Vulnerable adults or obviously kids, if he states his "conviction - term applied very loosely" on his application he would still be employable by anyone anyways. Hope I helped

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