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Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

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    Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

    Not sure where to start on this one.

    Personally I have no allegiance to my country. If family wasn't a consideration, I'd happily move around different places in the world. The idea that I should support my "country" above another one just seems weird. And is perhaps why we have wars.

    A musician, Kflay, had her music used in a Nike advert but now some of her US fans are moaning. They aren't moaning because Nike has sweatshops, but because one of their athletes knelt for the National Anthem (another weird concept), an anthem that features the words "home of the free". Free, unless you aren't patriotic..... Apparantly this is so important that anyone associated with Nike is now to be shunned.

    However, I know that many people are patriotic and don't act like prats, but I'd need convincing that it is in any way healthy overall.

    Anyone have any thoughts either way?

    #2
    Do you know the history behind that anthem and what the free relates too?

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      #3
      I had no idea who Kflay was, so had a look on youtube. I'd like to moan too.

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        #4
        I'd like to extend this to pride. Proud to be British, proud to be white, proud to be black, proud to be gay.

        You can be proud that you discover penicillin or that you invented helicopters but to be proud of the circumstances you happen to exist in? Seems like the wrong word.

        With you [MENTION=25]charlesr[/MENTION] on land boundaries.

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          #5
          Maybe I should have left that bit out of the post. It was the concept of patriotism I wanted to focus on.
          Originally posted by vanpeebles View Post
          Do you know the history behind that anthem and what the free relates too?

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            #6
            Proud of the choices you make. I choose my label to be Earthish, not British.

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              #7
              Just stick to focusing on the backups, that will do us!

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                #8
                Originally posted by Brad View Post
                I'd like to extend this to pride. Proud to be British, proud to be white, proud to be black, proud to be gay.

                You can be proud that you discover penicillin or that you invented helicopters but to be proud of the circumstances you happen to exist in? Seems like the wrong word.
                I agree with you on proud to be white/British, etc., but gay pride and black pride aren't quite the same. Certainly in the case of gay pride, it's more about people expressing that they're not going to be ashamed about being gay, which society once essentially forced them to be. After all, it really wasn't that long ago that being gay was illegal.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by charlesr View Post
                  Proud of the choices you make. I choose my label to be Earthish, not British.
                  Is that not just the same thing on a larger scale?

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                    #10
                    Screw those Martian a-holes!

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                      #11
                      ^ ^

                      Proud of being someone that bums aliens?

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                        #12
                        Yeah, if you are a minority and are routinely discriminated against, either in person or by the media or general social dialogue, then being proud of that attribute that is a good response - because to be ashamed of what you are through no choice of your own is not a viable proposition for a happy life.

                        However, I would say that patriotism has its usefulness and that is to get a country to pull together during a war. Outside of that, it's a baseless state of mind as you didn't have influence on your parentage or country of birth. It's also a tool for all kinds of haters (the far right, the religious fanatics, the homophobes, etc.) and ergo, a thin-veneer for discrimination of others.

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                          #13
                          I'm going to go slightly against the grain here in as much as although I'm not some mental patriot, I absolutely love my country and I've never really felt at home anywhere else. For all the travelling I've done, and all the time I've lived outside of Scotland it'll always be home. It's just a beautiful, beautiful place and as silly as it sounds as soon as I land back here on a plane or drive back over the border, it always feels like a weight has lifted a bit. I can't explain it, it's just the way I feel.

                          I don't mind saying it, I do take pride in a lot of the things we do here, how the people are and the beauty of the place. No, I never had any input in to the majority of it, but I'm not going to pretend it's not how I feel just because the majority here are saying it's stupid.

                          I mean I should also point out that for as many good people as there are here, there will probably be two others that are ****ing arseholes, but that's an issue anywhere in the world.

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                            #14
                            I guess people are using pride to mean not ashamed. We could do with a word that means exactly that! Maybe there is one.

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                              #15
                              Not keen on pride. It is a form of conceit, of arrogance, it perverts our sense of who (or what) we are. It's a barrier to humility. There's a reason it is regarded as a sin in Christianity, a disease in Islam, an evil in Judaism, and a poison in Buddhism.

                              On a more basic level, and one that we can all recognise, pride just ain't a very nice characteristic. It's an attempt to raise yourself up above others. Same thing goes for Patriotism.

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