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    Atari ST?

    Poor mans Amiga or classic system in it's own right?

    Ive always considered the first statement to be true and seen enough videos to not change my mind, tho some of the comparison vids i.e. from retro core show the ST sometimes had the upper hand.

    From what ive seen the sound chip produces 8 bit style sonic nightmares, care to convince me otherwise?

    #2
    One thing the ST had over Amiga was the fact that someone at atari decided that the computer have built-in MIDI in/out/thru ports. And with the release of the MIDI software sequencer, Cubase, back in 1989. It has etched itself securely into music tech history.

    The software was a MIDI sequencer only rather than utilising the soundchip.
    But yeah, for games, I'd say the Amiga had it licked in the end.

    You can even see an ST in this Utah Saints video at 1:43


    Last edited by hudson; 10-07-2019, 13:25.

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      #3
      I loved the ST and it was my 1st ever 16 bit system and still have so many memories of me and my uncle playing F29 Retaliator (before he upgraded to the Amiga and so did I much latter) and the amazing laughs me and my mates had on Circus Games on the ST
      I never saw much differnce between the systems for 3D polygons, but for 2D and sound the Amiga was vastly the better system and while I went more for the Amiga in the end, the Atari ST will always have a soft spot in my heart.

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        #4
        I expect soon we’ll all be getting unsolicited phone calls asking us if we were mis sold an Atari ST.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Brad View Post
          I expect soon we’ll all be getting unsolicited phone calls asking us if we were mis sold an Atari ST.
          Cruel...but funny.

          At the 'computer club' I used to frequent oh how we loved lording it over our graphically poor 16-bit 68k relations. At first there wasn't much difference as most games were ported ST-Amiga, when the demo scene took off and games were ported Amiga-ST (Menace anyone) the gulf was there to be seen.

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            #6

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              #7
              Out of curiosity, are there CPU upgrade boards for the ST similar to the Amiga’s TF or Vampire, original or new developments?

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                #8
                From a hardware standpoint the only advantage the ST had was a slightly higher clocked CPU, which benefited it at times - mostly on games which ignored all of the Amiga's custom graphics hardware. When games used the Amiga properly it was essentially a generation beyond the ST. The blitter and copper were phenomenally powerful, plus the Amiga had 8 hardware sprites which could be multiplexed and of course the ability to easily play sampled audio.

                The ST was in all honesty an extremely weak machine. It lacked even the most basic hardware for gaming - no hardware scrolling and no hardware sprites. It was also limited to a single 4-bit (16 colours) playfield whereas the Amiga could handle a one 5-bit (32 colours) playfield or two 3-bit (8 colour) playfield and an additional set of 16 colours for the spites. Add in the copper's ability to split those planes an unlimited number of times vertically and even horizontally on 16 pixel boundaries and those limited number of colours could easily be pushed into the hundreds.

                Saying all that neither were anywhere near as powerful as an MD or SNES from a sprite or playfield standpoint.

                It's such a shame that the vast majority of Amiga games were ST ports.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kotatsu Neko View Post
                  Saying all that neither were anywhere near as powerful as an MD or SNES from a sprite or playfield standpoint.
                  The Amiga in its original guise - The Lorraine - was 1984 tech. The A1000 launched in 1985 whereas the SFC launched in 1990. People tend to forget that and regard the Amiga as a 90s machine...

                  Edit: I just realised, poor Atari ST! It gets its own thread and already I’m banging on about the Amiga.

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                    #10
                    A niche device but what a niche! The mono hires mode coupled with built in midi ensured it was the music production computer of choice for years. A bug in Amiga hardware means that it is actually possible to lose midi data before it hits the serial port too and afaik there is no workaround. In reality I never hit that problem and I did midi on Amiga for many years but nevertheless...

                    Gem desktop looked like total arse thiugh

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by samanosuke View Post
                      People tend to forget that and regard the Amiga as a 90s machine...
                      Yeah, the fact that the OCS is mid-80s tech makes it even more impressive. People think of it as a 90s machine because when the price came down to £399 in 1989(when I got mine), it became a big thing and sales were high for a few years after that. I remember most people I knew got an Amiga 500 between 1990-1991.

                      Lots of developers didn't know how to make the most of the Amiga tech in the early[1986-1989] days. But once talented devs focused on the Amiga, the best games could compete with what the consoles were getting when it comes to graphics and sound. By the end of the Amiga's life, you had games that looked very much like top quality Mega Drive titles. It's such a shame that it took many years for the hardware to be fully utilised. Something like Kid Chaos from 1994 totally destroys earlier platformers technically.

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                        #12


                        I always thought of this game as an ST title. I really like the graphic style.



                        An early ST game that has pretty nice graphics and fun gameplay.



                        I remember loving the look of this as a kid. A really nice Thrust type of game.



                        Essentially the ST version of Alien Breed. A completely different aesthetic to AB's grim and moody style.

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                          #13
                          I think of the ST line as a 16bit Speccy. It’s a very basic computer just a CPU with some glue logic and a load of ports. But at the time a 68000 based system for the price was great value. Yes it lacks the dedicated audio visual hardware of an Amiga but it wasn’t designed as a games machine. The later STe models have more dedicated hardware for graphics and sound but that was too little too late and really should have been the original model.
                          I still game on the ST but it’s not a patch on a Megadrive or later Amiga games. The demoscene is where it’s at especially on the STe. So many good productions.
                          One of the lads at work is big into audio stuff and still uses an ST in his setup. He’s only 23 but loves the simple UI and superb latency the ST offers without all the overhead of a modern OS.
                          And the ST is home to one of my favourite recent homebrews - r0x Zero https://www.atarilegend.com/games/ga...p?game_id=7405

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Brad View Post
                            A niche device but what a niche! The mono hires mode coupled with built in midi ensured it was the music production computer of choice for years. A bug in Amiga hardware means that it is actually possible to lose midi data before it hits the serial port too and afaik there is no workaround.
                            Was it niche?. I remember when I was in school most of the kids all owning the system and making fun of us Master system owners (before the MS really took off) I remember Jimmy White Snooker being massive at the time and most of the kids in my school were all playing it on the ST.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                              Was it niche?
                              It was quite a popular machine for a few years. I think it sold loads at £299 with a big bundle of games.

                              But once the Amiga came down in price to £399 with the Batman bundle etc... the focus went onto Commodore's machine. People didn't really see developers showing off the Amiga tech until around 1989 anyway. I'm sure that showcase games like Shadow of the Beast really grabbed attention and made people want an A500.

                              I knew some people who sold their ST to help fund the purchase of an A500.

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