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Europe IV: The Final Hour

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    Seems they almost have to campaign under a strategy based on them assuming they will need a coalition

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      Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
      https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

      Boris's brother Jo Johnson is stepping down as MP for Orpington as he says he can't put family loyalty above the national interest.
      It's getting to the point where every time Johnson says something, there's a previous quote contradicting himself.

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        Commons Leader backs down over no-deal claims, while PM’s brother Jo Johnson quits citing ‘unresolvable tension’ between ‘family loyalty and the national interest’


        Labour may be building towards committing to ensuring a GE takes place after 01 November.

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          It's clear to me listening to the MPs that they're completely underestimating Johnson and the support he carries. These claims that he's been humiliated are only true from their bubble, it's not how it's being seen outside of the remain circles where these defeats are "Badges of Honour" against "Remainer Traitors".

          This is going to be a Trump situation again if they don't wise up fast - I think when the next polls come out, it's not going to show that it's Johnson they're fed up with, but Parliament itself (as has been the mood for a while).

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            I think enough people have seen what a mess the negotiations have been, and probably (arguably) what damage a no deal would bring.

            I struggle to comprehend anyone who voted not only for brexit, but want a no deal too (that was not even on the ballot papers).

            I imagine enough of the public now realise leaving the EU with a no deal is seriously going to f#*k this country up.

            I feel at the moment that it’s Labour’s to lose, as the Conservatives look in disarray.

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              You'd think, but no: https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-v...yn-as-pm-poll/

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                Not sure I’m reading the article correctly, or interpreting the chart wrong.

                The article points out voters don’t want Corbyn, but the chart illustrates that the majority want to remain in the EU.

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                  Originally posted by Super Grover View Post
                  Not sure I’m reading the article correctly, or interpreting the chart wrong.

                  The article points out voters don’t want Corbyn, but the chart illustrates that the majority want to remain in the EU.
                  "40% of the 995 people poled"

                  when you factor in that we currently have 64 million people in the UK that poll means bugger all.

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                    Do we really need to point out how statistical polling works again?


                    Plug in your own numbers to see how margin of error works on sample size vs population: https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/marg...or-calculator/
                    Last edited by MartyG; 06-09-2019, 08:04.

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                      Johnson gets a drubbing for his use of police in his speech



                      And after Mogg acted like a petty coward in hiding behind parliamentary privilege to call out Dr Nicholl's a second time, comparing him to Andrew Wakefield, Nicholls spoke on LBC yesterday and directly challenged Mogg to repeat his comment outside of parliamentary walls stating that he will then sue Mogg for defamation. Like the horizontal cowardly worm he is Mogg has today issued a statement apologising for the comment.

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                        Did you see footage of Johnson doing a publicity tour in Yorkshire?
                        One guy lets rip, saying “You should be in Brussels, negotiating.”
                        Johnson replied that the government has “been negotiating” but the man bemusedly replies “You are not. You are in Morley, in Leeds.”

                        The best is this lovely guy who ever-so-politely says "Please leave my town", smiles and gives him a pat.

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                          Johnson is going to spend today spitting and whining like a man-baby but Labour has already confirmed it will not support next Monday's second attempt at calling an early General Election by the Tories. There's no in party consensus on when a GE should take place but some in Labour are said to be keen on delaying it as long as possible, likely to place heavy emphasis on Johnson as a failure.

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                            Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                            https://www.theguardian.com/politics...litical-speech

                            Johnson gets a drubbing for his use of police in his speech
                            I wonder where Johson gets his ideas from?




                            The problem is, he just waffles and he spends ages trying to remember the speech about rights when people are arrested, looking like all three Stooges simultaneously and sounding like The Fast Show "I was very drunk" guy. Heaven knows what point he was intitially trying to make:


                            He waffled on for so long, that he made one trainee officer collapse with exhaustion.


                            Comparisons are being made with how Johnson, just carries on, unphased, and how Obama dealt with a similar situation:

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                              https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-live-newsbior

                              Johnson is going to spend today spitting and whining like a man-baby but Labour has already confirmed it will not support next Monday's second attempt at calling an early General Election by the Tories. There's no in party consensus on when a GE should take place but some in Labour are said to be keen on delaying it as long as possible, likely to place heavy emphasis on Johnson as a failure.
                              It's a strategy that won't work; opposition to Johnson is falling into the same trap as opposition to Trump. Pointing out Trump's lies hasn't had much impact (people don't seem to care). Pointing out Trump hasn't built a wall hasn't had much impact (people see it as Trump being blocked). Pointing out Trump's racism and bigitory hasn't had much impact (people seem to see it as a strength, not a weakness). Pointing out Trump's use of language hasn't had much impact (people seem to like it).

                              Playing the same tactics against Johnson is equally likely to fail, but this appears to be the current strategy. I don't think forcing Johnson to seek an extension with the EU whilst blocking a General Election is going to be the downfall folks are expecting it to be. It's not being seen as Johnson failing, it's being seen as Johnson being blocked by the establishment, it plays right into the hands of the populism movement.

                              I can forsee shock and disbelief just as there was when Trump was elected with the same "how could anyone vote for him?" questions arising if they carry on down this road. They really need to wake up and find a tactic that makes it less of us vs them issue.

                              And, as expected once again, Prorogation is ruled lawful: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...gh-court-rules
                              Last edited by MartyG; 06-09-2019, 09:32.

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                                The opposition parties now seem locked in agreement that there will be no GE before 31 October and will now push that Parliament sits no matter what on the 18, 19 and 20 October in an effort to ensure Johnson has to submit the A50 extension request. Any vote of No Confidence is definitely going to be held back till post-Prorogument.

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