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  1. #21
    You can quite happily have sem-automatic weapon in the UK too with ease, although it must be licensed/registered and for a particular use e.g. vermin control. The M4 I used last week could quite happily fire off an entire magazine in under 2 seconds. Which is as good as automatic. And yet the owners of these in the UK do not normally run around killing people with them.

    Bullet control. $100 for each bullet unless on a controlled gun range where they are cheap as cheaps.

  2. #22
    When I was on holiday this year I went in to a branch of Walmart to buy some beer. When I asked one of the shop assistants which aisle it was in, she looked at me in disgust and said "You can't buy beer here, it's a dry county. If you want it, it's twelve miles each way out of town to find a store that sells it". At that point I pointed towards the massive gun display in the centre of the shop and said "So you're telling me as long as I have my driving licence, I could walk out of here with an automatic rifle, but I can't buy a six pack?" and started laughing. She didn't see the joke, says it all.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by QualityChimp View Post
    ...but none of us seem to consider that maybe we should reconsider the gun culture in games.

    Shhh... you'll get kicked out of the gaming club.

    Any time this subject is brought up, I find gamers get instantly defensive, to the point where they won't even consider the possibility that there may be something wrong with their hobby. It doesn't seem to be something anyone wants to face. Partly, that's just a blindness born out of a desire not to turn out to be part of the problem. But it's also a reaction to some of the crazier stories and blame that gets thrown around.

    And that's important to say - some of the direct cause and effect stories, from the likes of the Daily Mail in particular, have been ridiculous. When it comes to games (and film and music before them), we have had fearmongering, scapegoating and deliberate misdirection when it comes to tragedies like this and even just misinterpreting studies and findings. Most of us here can safely say a game has not led us to go out and hurt anyone. So it is not a direct cause and effect. We know this.

    But the other side of that is that there has been almost 60 years of research into the effects of media, particularly TV and film, and from that it is pretty safe to say as fact that media does have an effect on us. Almost all the research over that time backs that up. And it makes perfect sense. Our world view is formed and changed by what we are exposed to. And a huge amount of what we are exposed to for generations now is in the form of TV and film, and now games. It all contributes. For example, many studies have identified what they call mean world syndrome. Basically heavy viewers of TV are far more likely to overestimate crime figures and their actual danger in everyday life. And why wouldn't they? A huge amount of TV consists of crime dramas or shows with violent events. That contributes to the world view of people who watch those. When it comes to kids, it has been found that viewers of violent shows are more likely to grow into more violent older kids - correlation, not causation. But what is interesting there is that a major study found that watching violent TV at age 8 is significantly related to aggression at age 18, but violent TV preferences at age 18 were not related to aggression at age 8. What does that say? It cuts out a chicken and egg argument and says that the violent TV watching is not just as a result of these people being violent themselves anyway. What is sad is that many studies have found that the people most affected by media are those who are already mentally unstable or have certain mental health issues.

    Those in TV, film and games cannot predict or control the actions of everyone. But just like everyone is responsible for their actions, we are responsible for what we create and that responsibility needs to be taken very seriously. If we put something out there into the world, we need to have considered what effects that something will have.

    For me, the important word you used QC is 'culture'. There is a culture of violence. And much more so in the US as far as I can see. We see it in our games and TV because we are exposed to US media and the US is one of the largest marketplaces people are aiming to sell to. But it goes much further than the media. The death penalty, which is perfectly legal killing, is normal in many states in the US. And I can't think if there has been a year in my entire life when the US was not in conflict with some nation or other, dropping bombs on people every day. They use fearmongering as a polictical tool all the time. It is a normal part of life.

    And it's kind of twisted. I was only laughing at The Walking Dead the other night. It has insane levels of violence for a TV show. And yet any suggestion that a character is taking their clothes off and the show suddenly goes all shy. It says that smashing someones head in is more acceptable than a nipple. Take that one in for a moment.

    That to me says we are dealing with a twisted set of values and a culture of violence. That's not really about games or TV. But it's in games and TV. Would censoring those help? Maybe to some extent over time, in aiming changing the culture. Certainly I think age restrictions need to be much more heavily enforced. One thing in the UK which was indicative of a real problem was when Ren & Stimpy was cut on DVD or they would be refused a certification altogether because it was a cartoon and even if they made it 18s, they said kids would watch it. That shows no faith in their ratings system and that's a problem.

    But I keep thinking of toddlers, because maybe that's what we're dealing with when considering society as a whole. If a toddler kept stabbing people with a fork, you'd have to look at maybe implementing the naughty step, or reducing their sugar or finding what factors are contributing to their behavior and you could probably improve things.

    But the very first step? That's simple - you prevent them getting to the forks.

  4. #24
    To be honest and quick, I watch tv at 5pm and sometimes I am astonished at what is being shown even at this time. Programs that are sexualised and violent at a far too early time.
    I watched Red Dwarf recently at around 6pm. This was once a 9pm show but due to the increasing violence in media now it is fairly soft. It still terrified my daughter though. When a monster came on she ran off screaming. Yes I should have seen it coming but I had almost forgotten that it could be scary.

    Violence is not perhaps the issue in media, it is how you distribute it that is the issue. We need tougher pre watershed tv and much stronger awareness of violent games.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ikobo View Post
    When I was on holiday this year I went in to a branch of Walmart to buy some beer. When I asked one of the shop assistants which aisle it was in, she looked at me in disgust and said "You can't buy beer here, it's a dry county. If you want it, it's twelve miles each way out of town to find a store that sells it". At that point I pointed towards the massive gun display in the centre of the shop and said "So you're telling me as long as I have my driving licence, I could walk out of here with an automatic rifle, but I can't buy a six pack?" and started laughing. She didn't see the joke, says it all.
    That was the part I always found strange. Having to hunt round just for a remote liquor store and even then only certain ones sold beer.

    Gun culture plays a part but since we have very strict controls and have had plenty of incidents, it's probably time to target (no pun) mental health properly. Is it acceptable treatment to give people tablets and let them loose in the community?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by charlesr View Post
    You can quite happily have sem-automatic weapon in the UK too with ease, although it must be licensed/registered and for a particular use e.g. vermin control. The M4 I used last week could quite happily fire off an entire magazine in under 2 seconds. Which is as good as automatic. And yet the owners of these in the UK do not normally run around killing people with them.

    Bullet control. $100 for each bullet unless on a controlled gun range where they are cheap as cheaps.

    That mole back, Charles?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by k0pp0 View Post
    Hangon, rewind back 10-20 years and this would have been because of violent films..
    What? No.

    10-20 years ago this would have been because of violent games too.

  8. #28
    Only it would have been riding on the back of dinosaurs and stomping on turtles.

  9. #29
    And Sub-Zero's spine rip fatality...

  10. #30
    @ Nakamura: it would've been Doom, Resident Evil, Carmageddon, Splatterhouse, and other morally-corrupting nasties...

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