Problems with the XRGB-Mini/Framemeister?

[InvisibleKid]

Hey guys,

Just looking for some help.
I bought this magic/wonderful bit of kit from Yakumo recently (Thanks Yakumo!) - it took an age to arrive after being stuck in customs forever and then being stung by import tax - damn you Royal Mail..

First things first, I plugged the unit in and found that my Saturn worked beautifully and looks wonderful too. I use an EU RGB SCART lead with two phono audio breakout cables, I have it connected to my XRGB-Mini via a convertor for Euro-SCART to DIN cable.

Saturn looked lovely - but I didn't notice until later that the audio is only coming out of my left speaker when I use just the SCART connector. If I use the phono connectors and change the audio output options in the XRGB-Mini to use those then everything sounds great. :S (Problem 1)

I wanted to use the 'Meister' video mode - I'd watched Yakumo's Youtube video about Framemeister about 6/7 times waiting for it to arrive - so I knew that's what I wanted to see, and having a 1080p panel I opted to set the video output to 1080p..
I play a lot of SF and related Vs. games and popped in Street Fighter Zero 3.. it appears to change resolution a bunch of times, even when you just leave it on the attract mode.
The problem I noticed is that when the game changes it's video out mode, the XRGB-Mini drops to a black screen (normal for changing display mode - I expected this - and expected it to last 1/2 seconds as described by Yakumo and many others across the net) but it never returns. Just sits there on a black screen with no audio.
After quite a while, I found that the problem was with the 1080p. If I drop the video out to 720p no such problem exists. I'm running firmware 1.11.

I also plugged in my Super Famicom running Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time. I have this connected via a Gamecube EU RGB Scart lead, via the same Euro-SCART to DIN adapter I used on the Saturn - and everything was not good. Blue screen everywhere. No video output, just audio.
HOWEVER this is because I'm an idiot who forgot to mess with the sync level.
A quick change to the sync level and boom - everything looks fantastic on my SFC, no issues at all!

Sadly, on returning to the Saturn I found that the change in sync levels hadn't made any difference (positive or negative) to the Saturn.

Does anyone have any advice?

TLDR:
1. My Saturn seems to only have mono sound (sound out of the left speaker) via RGB SCART.
2. My Saturn drops to a black screen when changing resolution when using Meister mode in 1080p.

Thanks guys,

InvisibleKid

PS. Big thanks to Yakumo for providing me a great product - my issues aren't a mark on him at all or the XRGB-Mini - I'm wondering if I have a dodgy Euro SCART lead for my Saturn or I'm simply doing something wrong.

[Yakumo]

Just saw your tweet mate and came to read the issues you are having. Right, first off it sounds like either your Saturn's out port is a little worse for ware or you have a dodgy cable. My old Saturn had this problem with left audio being either very low or off all together. It wasn't the cable but the actual port on the back of the console. With a bit of jiggling I could get the audio back bet then it had awful humming interference. My other Saturn doesn't suffer from this issue.

My Dreamcast also has a Sound but no image issue at times but this is because of a crappy cable. If I pull it out a little of the Framemeisters RGB input the picture works. Seems the cable doesn't like being fitted snugly in to the Framemeister.

As for the 1080p issue you are having, I can't really answer that one. I actually run my Framemeister in 720p for retro stuff apart from 480p titles on the DC or PS2.

[Escape-To-88]

Haven't read the whole topic, but I did countless Saturn mods and repairs way back when and I always found the Saturn's video out port to be bloody terrible. They'd always seem to degrade quicker than any other console.

[InvisibleKid]

Right, an update.

I now run all my games in 720p, with Meister mode enabled. No excessive dropouts. (Except in Fighters Megamix on Saturn - it toggles interlace/progressive FAR too often..)

However, I still have this problem with mono sound through the SCART.
Looking at the Saturn pinouts, it only provides two pins (L/R) for the audio - and the phono connectors on my SCART lead work fine (stereo!) but the actual SCART connector only does mono through L.

Now, I bought a second RGB scart lead from here:

http://www.robwebb1.plus.com/saturn/saturnhard.htm

And that too only outputs in mono.

Because I have a Japanese Saturn, I've noticed that the EU and NTSC(US/JP) versions of Saturn do have subtle differences in the pinout on the console.

Do I need to be using an original Japanese SCART RGB-21 cable and then convert that to EU?
Would that be the recommended course of action?

I'm not entirely sure whether my SCART leads are EU-SCART or RGB-21 SCART!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Escape-To-88]

Hmm, I could be wrong here, as it's been a LONG time since I did one of these, but I had it was only a few consoles where the pin differences really mattered - and I'm not sure the Saturn was one of them. I know when I had a Japanese MD I had issue with regional pinouts when I mde custom leads for my 1084s monitor. Do you have a pinout diagram for the EU and JP cables? I can take a look if you want, although as I say it's been a while

I used to buy quite a few bits from Rob Webb and have never had issues with his leads personally. Although again that was a while ago.

Mono is always through the L channel - is the issue it only plays out of one channel? As you can 'split/double' the mono signal. It won't be true stereo but it will output to both channels if that's the issue. I've never actually used an X-RGB mini so I'm flying a bit blind, but if you can get me a pin diagram, as I say, I'll have a look.

*EDIT. I've just found some old pinout maps and is this what you're talking about:

http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/rgb21pinj.htm

http://www.diyha.co.uk/electronics/scart.html

http://www.gamesx.com/grafx/satpin.jpg

[InvisibleKid]

The more and more I look at this the more and more I get confused :S

When I use the phono connectors for audio I do get two distinctively different audio tracks - there are missing instruments etc. in the SCART (left only audio).

I am utterly baffled.

So I have:
Japanese Saturn --> RGB SCART (EURO or 21? Don't know - assume EU) --> EURO to 21 conv. cable for XRGB-Mini --> Framemeister

I assume something is going wrong in there..

[beecee]

if its the cable, these guys have decent replacements

http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/micomsoft-xrgb.html

[briareos_kerensky]

Japanese Saturn --> RGB SCART (EURO or 21? Don't know - assume EU) --> EURO to 21 conv. cable for XRGB-Mini --> Framemeister

I'd assume it's a EU cable between the Saturn and the XRGB, otherwise you'll have different problems than monoaural audio.
Anyway, I never had audio problems with any of my consoles through the FrameMeister, and it's a bit more contrived than yours (console->EU RGB cable->EU RGB switch->EU to JPN RGB converter->RGB to DIN converter->XRGB).
The Saturn is a bit tricky to use with Micomsoft scalers though. With the XRGB3 and old FrameMeister firmwares some games won't be able to display anything, and even with the latest firmware, I still have problems no matter the finetuning. The FrameMeister isn't exactly the best with HDMI handshaking, and when ever the resolution/scan mode changes, there's a chance I lose connection to the monitor, forcing me to change input or turn the monitor off completely.
Never had problems with sound output though, on any console.

One thing I can think of is that one of the cables isn't properly connected or one pin became loose.

[Yakumo]

The sound issue it most definitely going to be a problem with either your cable or the Saturn it's self. It's a common fault with the Saturn. Either one channel missing or bad noise over the audio. Is there any way you can try your cable on a different Saturn or use a different cable on the Saturn you are currently using? That will tell you what the issue is right away.

[InvisibleKid]

Tried a second SCART cable. Looks like its my Saturn. Which baffles me as why do the phonos work on my original cable? Any suggestions about repair?

[InvisibleKid]

Just wanted to post an update on this.
I finally got hold of a JP21 RGB lead for my Saturn - and lo - everything is now sorted.

SO if you have an EU Saturn -> EU RGB SCART -> EU to JP21 converter -> XRGB-Mini -> TV

You might have audio issues for some reason. I tried multiple EU RGB scart leads. (Perhaps an issue with my EU to JP21 converter? But I doubt it - it's fine with my SFC and others.)