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PCs and Steam: Thread 01

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    Steam's become pretty inflated in pricing compared to what it used to, I'd be tempted to take a 50 or 60% cut and have lower prices for users too, that'd be a shot across Steams bow

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      I don't know. I can pick up a stupid amount of top tier games for about a fiver each in their sales so I'm not sure trying to compete on price will be a good thing in the long run.

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        Originally posted by MartyG View Post
        No, it's not fine for it to be exclusive regardless of Steam or Epic - this isn't good for the consumer - this isn't being an alternative or competition to Steam, this is trying to BE Stream which certainly doesn't help the person buying the game, removing their choice of where they want to store their personal data and creditcard / paypal information (i.e. in a few places as entirely possible), or where they want to gamble their stake for ongoing access to their future game library.

        I have no issue with people wanting to buy from the Epic store - but exclusive nonsense like this is not good and all that will cause is more and more store exclusives. How does that help me as a consumer? A tanking of sales will be the only way to halt this from continuing.

        David Galindo has done a very good breakdown of the current Epic store situation: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGali...for_Anyone.php
        But it would be fine if it was exclusive to steam?

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          Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
          But it would be fine if it was exclusive to steam?
          Bad Reading

          Originally posted by MartyG View Post
          No, it's not fine for it to be exclusive regardless of Steam or Epic

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            Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
            ...just have the game up for sale on both stores and let consumer choose, especially for games that have been on pre-sale on Steam for ages anyway.
            Wouldn't work. People aren't going to dump their emotional and monetary investment in an ecosystem where they have a 10 year old plus library. Epic had to have unique games, be aggressive on price or buy exclusives. One of the few tactics Epic had and is well used in the industry.

            Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
            They hope Given the recent slate of instances of this it seems safe to assume we'll see some big late games announce they're going to Epic rather than Steam and then it's whether they still sell and if Steam will finally blink on that 30%
            Valve did blink on the 30% already. There's no doubt that was in response to the slew of Epic Games Store exclusive games that arrived a few days later. Whether Valve react further is the question. I suspect that they know first-party publishers are gone anyway (i.e. Bethesda, Activision etc.) and that might be influencing their decisions.

            Also if you're an Unreal Engine game (i.e. Borderlands 3) you also don't have to pay the 5% royalties to Epic when selling away from the their Storefront. So even more reduced costs that may make the Epic Game Store a more appealing option.

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              Originally posted by MartyG View Post
              Bad Reading
              I didn’t see that. Unfortunately though Marty you’d then have to extend that to literally everything. If a company wants to sell their goods exclusively through their/someone’s platform that is their choice.

              You’d also have to extend that to PSN, live, Nintendo etc. It just doesn’t work.

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                Sure - which is why I hope it backfires on them badly - it's the only way to stop an appalling practice of exclusive content on an open platform.

                I don't support timed 3rd party exclusives on consoles either for the same reasons (1st party exclusives are a different matter - no one expects to be able to play Mario on the Xbox One).

                Originally posted by Digfox View Post
                Also if you're an Unreal Engine game (i.e. Borderlands 3) you also don't have to pay the 5% royalties to Epic when selling away from the their Storefront. So even more reduced costs that may make the Epic Game Store a more appealing option.
                You need to read the link I posted earlier to see why cost is not the only consideration for indie devs.

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                  I read the link, Marty, and being honest I didn't see many of the issues. The section on percentages, for example, ends "it is undoubtedly a net loss for customers. They are getting a worse experience with your game" without in any way showing how that is the case and yet following a section that seems to suggest it's going to be very good for devs. The Launcher section effectively dismisses itself in the first half of its opening line. And then the next section does pretty much the same by making a very good argument for the success of the Epic store because, as it says, "competition is good, and this will only make the marketplace stronger". And then it goes on to suggest the problem here isn't Epic but what Valve can or can't do about Epic. And Valve are rolling in cash, userbase and games so I don't think they're going under any time soon.

                  I'm not seeing what you're seeing in that article.

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                    Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                    I'm not seeing what you're seeing in that article.
                    Okay, let me pick a few bits out, because it is in no way supporting the current Epic store. The title even gives that away "The Epic Store, In Its Current State, is Not Good for Anyone."

                    Because with all this free press about how great the Epic Store is for developers, it is undoubtedly a net loss for customers. They are getting a worse experience with your game.
                    - which it goes on to explain in "Epic’s Launcher"

                    while its easy to dismiss buying a game on Epic’s Store as “just another launcher” and not a big deal, it is side stepping everything that a customer has enjoyed from their own preferred stores on PC.
                    [lists features of various stores]
                    Epic are championing the launcher as having a “direct player connection,” but what does that mean, exactly? Its nebulous words and phrases that skirts around the main reason any dev does something seemingly anti-consumer: it will make them more guaranteed money.
                    But Competition is Healthy!

                    Despite how bad the user experience is comparatively for players, there is one good outcome: competition is good, and this will only make the marketplace stronger.

                    This is true and not necessarily applicable to this situation.
                    But this kind of competition doesn’t help foster growth, it fosters exclusivity on an open platform.
                    Going under doesn't have to mean Epic going bankrupt - they could easily decide that it isn't working out for them and close the platform and that doesn't negate the fact exclusivity excludes choice or solve more personal data in more places.

                    I don't see how anyone can support open platforms and see lock outs as a good thing.
                    Last edited by MartyG; 30-01-2019, 16:55.

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                      It's not explaining any of that, Marty. It's just saying it. It's saying it's a net loss for customers in a section that shows no such thing. It's saying the competition argument isn't necessarily applicable here without showing why. It's saying it's "anti-consumer" again without showing why. It's basically a whole article of "I just don't like it" and maybe you're connecting with that because you don't like it either but it's making a very poor case.

                      Edit: As per your edit, when Valve (guessing you mean Valve in the latter part) are in any danger whatsoever of closing their platform, we can pick this up again.
                      Last edited by Dogg Thang; 30-01-2019, 16:55.

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                        I don't have an issue with Epic's launcher - I have an issue with locked exclusives on an open platform.

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                          Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                          I don't have an issue with Epic's launcher - I have an issue with locked exclusives on an open platform.
                          I went through the article and have to agree with Dogg on this one. I’m not being argumentative here Marty for the sake of it, but agree with dog on all his points, the article just says, it’s bad because, but no real facts behind it.

                          Your still buying the same product at the end of the day here, it’s the same game whatever store it’s bought from.

                          I think you have a bee in your bonnet about it in the same way I get with bungie & Destiny .

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                            Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
                            Your still buying the same product at the end of the day here, it’s the same game whatever store it’s bought from..
                            No, no it isn't.

                            The whole achievement system is built into the Steam platform which all hook into your profile with the trading cards and badge system along with the stat tracking which Epic doesn't have - don't underestimate how popular this stuff is. The workshop aspect of Steam is very popular too, allowing Steam to handle user mods and even keep them updated.

                            Not buying it on Steam does impact on the experience.

                            Given that Deep Silver is being review bombed currently, I think there maybe quite a few people who are more than unhappy with this move.
                            Last edited by MartyG; 30-01-2019, 17:15.

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                              This is going to sound like I'm making a joke but I'm really not - it sounds like you feel you or others are locked into the Steam infrastructure, Marty. And I don't know how pro-consumer that really is... The game being sold is the game regardless of trading cards and badge systems or whatever.

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                                We'll simply have to disagree on that - I simply prefer Steam as a platform.

                                I'd also tell Hovis to sod off if it suddenly told me the only place I could buy its bread was at Spar. A practice, some might say, that would not be favourable to consumers.
                                Last edited by MartyG; 30-01-2019, 18:01.

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