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PCs and Steam: Thread 01

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    It's a little frustrating. Competition's good but having all these launchers and accounts is annoying af tbh. I'm assuming DOOM Eternal will be exclusive to the Bethesda launcher as well.

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      It's not competition if you can only buy in one place.

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        Grim Dawn expansion out next Wed https://store.steampowered.com/app/8...ods_Expansion/

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          I still really don’t get why everyone on PC hates launchers other than Steam having exclusives. It’s how consoles have worked forever - except with PC, you don’t even need to spend £300+ buying a console. You just download a free launcher. What’s the big deal?

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            Epic's data security (they've had two massive data breaches)
            Having personal and payment data in more places
            Lack of features
            Questionable refund and data privacy policies
            Links to Tencent
            Having to manage multiple launchers to keep things up-to-date (and the larger aspect of splitting collections across multiple platforms)
            Forcing people to use their platform by paying money for exclusives rather than actually making the service better to give users a proper reason to switch, thus providing actual competition

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              Originally posted by wakka View Post
              I still really don’t get why everyone on PC hates launchers other than Steam having exclusives. It’s how consoles have worked forever - except with PC, you don’t even need to spend £300+ buying a console. You just download a free launcher. What’s the big deal?
              I like having everything in one place, it's convenient. Having multiple stores, multiple launchers, multiple friends lists, multiple accounts which will, at some point be compromised isn't something I want to deal with. It doesn't improve anything for me. Some of the stores are just shocking as well.I was dreading news of The Outer Worlds being exclusive to The Windows Store, I would have skipped that game had that actually been the case and I'm a big Obsidian fan.

              Locking down exclusives is the only realistic way to break Valves stranglehold on the digital store front so I understand it, but I'd rather just have everything on everything and stick to the one or two stores I like.

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                Originally posted by wakka View Post
                I still really don’t get why everyone on PC hates launchers other than Steam having exclusives. It’s how consoles have worked forever - except with PC, you don’t even need to spend £300+ buying a console. You just download a free launcher. What’s the big deal?
                Just to add to what [MENTION=42]MartyG[/MENTION] wrote. The list of feature discrepancies between Steam and others is immense. With full Linux support (run Windows only games), achievements, joypad support, big screen mode and in-home steaming being the bigger ones that the other Storefronts don't do. And Steam big picture mode is a thing of beauty, basically turning your PC into a console-like UI. That said exclusive launchers being a thing on PC isn't new, but Epic specifically paying to keep games off Steam is.

                So lots of win32.exe launchers sitting in your system tray chewing up resources and then you ludicrous situations where you go from one launcher (EGS > UPlay, or Steam > UPlay) to another when trying to start a game. The more efficient background apps was in part what Microsoft was trying to take over and resolve with native UWP apps.

                But also another way to think about it, is imagine having all your movies and TV in iTunes, and then suddenly having to buy movies on Amazon Prime, and Google Play, and then Rakuten.tv. So when you sit down to watch a movie through your smart TV you have to load up lots of different apps to find the movie you want to watch.

                It's all a mess. Sure it's something you can put up with but far from ideal. And not a single thought was spared for the consumer, it is being driven by the publishers. Much like a lootbox for example.
                Last edited by Digfox; 23-03-2019, 09:53.

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                  Originally posted by Digfox
                  But also another way to think about it, is imagine having all your movies and TV in iTunes, and then suddenly having to buy movies on Amazon Prime, and Google Play, and then Rakuten.tv. So when you sit down to watch a movie through your smart TV you have to load up lots of different apps to find the movie you want to watch.


                  That’s exactly how smart TV works

                  I still don’t see why switching launchers is such a big hardship. I get your complaints above, but they seem like minor niggles really.

                  Seems to me it’s a worthy trade off to avoid one company completely monopolising PC gaming (but what do I know?).

                  I’m seeing a lot of people saying they’ll not buy games they really want if they use a launcher they don’t like. That to me is really crazy. It’s just a free bit of software. I’ve bought entire consoles just to play an exclusive or two.

                  EDIT:

                  I missed Martyg’s points above. The data security point is definitely a fair one.

                  If that was fixed, and Steam was feature matched by Epic, would people then be OK with multiple stores? Or should PC only ever have one dominant store, in people’s view?
                  Last edited by wakka; 23-03-2019, 11:48.

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                    Originally posted by wakka View Post
                    That’s exactly how smart TV works
                    Not at all.

                    You're confusing streaming movies with purchasing media. Most people are buying all their digital TV/movies in one place, i.e. iTunes. I don't have to load different apps on my smart TV becuase any purchased films I have are on ONE service.

                    Originally posted by wakka View Post
                    I still don’t see why switching launchers is such a big hardship. I get your complaints above, but they seem like minor niggles really.

                    Seems to me it’s a worthy trade off to avoid one company completely monopolising PC gaming (but what do I know?).

                    If that was fixed, and Steam was feature matched by Epic, would people then be OK with multiple stores? Or should PC only ever have one dominant store, in people’s view?
                    I'm not being rude, but often non-PC gamers don't see the issue becuase they haven't been through the ups and down of PC gaming. Or wouldn't have used small features like community control configs. It's not end of world but still a mess.

                    Ideally you should be able to buy yout games from where you want to (same as digital music, TV or movies work). If Valve paid a developer to keep a game off EGS then there would be a similar (albeit smaller) uproar. That's the difference betwenn EGS and Origin or UPlay. No one cared about Unreal Tournament or Fortnite being exclusive to EGS. They are Epic made games.

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                      I think it might be you that’s confused about streaming movies vs purchasing, rather than me. For one thing I think it’s a false distinction, since not only do subscription based, all you can eat services feature plenty of exclusives, so do purchased media services.

                      I don’t see how subscription services aren’t relevant - but even if we do disregard them, purchased movie stores aren’t all perfectly equal by any means, and you do often need to mix and match to get what you want.

                      Even with music, you have the same situation. Not all music and artists are on Spotify or Apple Music, and vice versa.

                      Putting that to one side - there is probably some truth to the statement that I don’t ‘get it’ because I’m not a PC guy (although slightly patronising...!). It’s true, I’m not, so I haven’t got the abiding appreciation for what Steam brought that a long time PC user will have. My view is still that the hate Epic are getting is an overreaction, but I can accept that the Epic store is an annoyance for most PC players.

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                        Got to be honest When i first heard about it Epic store I did wonder what all the fuss was as most of the time I just click on the game icon i want to play on the Desktop.

                        But losing out on features like reviews compulsory for all games,Achievements, cloud saves, forums and the whole security concerns is starting to change my opinions a bit,

                        I reckon there will be a rise in Third party apps that can sort out the games so can launch all in the one place

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                          That’s interesting [MENTION=3349]eastyy[/MENTION].

                          I think honestly my view is coloured by the absolute vitriol regarding it I’ve seen elsewhere online. Like, some people are really, really angry. Way angrier than this warrants. So that’s why I asked the question, and it’s interesting to get a more balanced view of it.

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                            Yeah, I’m in the same boat as you, Wakka. I do get the point that Steam has a bunch of features people like. That’s very valid (except maybe security concerns because that would be to pretend Steam hasn’t had security breaches) But those features are a trade-off those who choose to go exclusive with another store choose to make. I have no problem with them making that choice. Ultimately the games are still available to everyone and the games are what devs and publishers are selling. You might prefer to buy your hot sauce from Tesco because you like their bags but if the hot sauce company makes an exclusivity deal with Sainsbury’s, it’s about selling their hot sauce rather than Tesco’s bags. So the Steam features thing, while valid in terms of a frustration for some people, aren’t core to this in my opinion. If they are make or break to a buyer, then don’t buy it and let the company know why. Either they’ll take note that other stores need those features or think carefully about exclusivity deals in future if it impacts their bottom line, and given Steam’s user base it very well could affect it. But I have little patience for internet rage.

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                              Originally posted by wakka View Post
                              I think it might be you that’s confused about streaming movies vs purchasing, rather than me. For one thing I think it’s a false distinction, since not only do subscription based, all you can eat services feature plenty of exclusives, so do purchased media services.
                              My example specifically buying a movie digitally in the same way as buying a game. If I want to purchase Avengers: Infinty War I can do so on any of the services. Google Play haven't paid for exclusivity to keep it off iTunes. Same with music I can currently BUY most artists from any of the storefronts.

                              Steam and EGS aren't offering subscriptions and hence I don't think the analogy works. But with subscriptions I think most people understand there will be some exclusive content, i.e. Games on Game Pass that aren't on PS Now or Humble Bundle Monthly etc. Similar to how there is content on Disney's streaming service vs Netflix. You arr renting afterall.

                              But given this is about purchasing games on Steam or EGS I don't think it's a great analogy, i.e. Music artists will often keep there music off services but generally when BUYING other media I cannot think of a situation exactly the same as what Epic have done.

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                                Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                                You might prefer to buy your hot sauce from Tesco because you like their bags but if the hot sauce company makes an exclusivity deal with Sainsbury’s
                                That example doesn't really work for multiple reasons. That's a product not a service. Also I don't have to sign up to anything to buy that hot sauce. And other hot sauces are available.

                                It's not the same.

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