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    I bought another one of these Buffalo SNES pads to use with my Raspberry Pi. They are much better than the cheap pads you tend to get on eBay. I'd say they're close enough to real thing to be satisfying to use. I was playing SF2:Turbo and easily pulling off all the moves.

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      I agree Leon. I'm a big ossc advocate and I'm only using this crt because I have an amiga 2000 that uses it so it's there anyway. An lcd plus ossc is a great solution but ad you say, there are aspects to a crt that just don't translate into flat panel world. Nostalgia is possibly 99% of it though!

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        Originally posted by Brad View Post
        Nostalgia is possibly 99% of it though!
        There's probably an element of nostalgia, and also peace of mind knowing the games look like they're supposed to. When you use something like the Framemeister or OSSC, you can worry that the resolution, scanlines, colours etc... aren't correct. It can give you a headache worrying about authenticity. Then when you take things further with emulation, you get the added stress of worrying about how the games scroll and run in general. So using real hardware with a CRT takes away any worries about authenticity. So nostalgia is often based on the practical desire to have retro games look and run in a way that is 100% correct.

        The reason I use the OSSC and also enjoy emulation with my Retro Pi, is because I'm happy with how retro games can look on an LCD with things set up properly with scanlines. It feels authentic enough to make me happy, with the added bonus of being able to use my main television in the living room. I've seen emulation set up so badly that it makes a mockery of retro games, but the results can be really nice if you take the time to work out how to make things look reasonably authentic.

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          Not nostalgia for me brad. I could never go back to using scalers / lcds for retro, after using pro crt monitors - the video quality is easily halved, if not more.

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            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            after using pro crt monitors - the video quality is easily halved, if not more.
            It's hard to believe that what I'm seeing when using a Framemeister or OSSC is half the quality of a top quality CRT. If that is true though, no wonder the price of PVM/BVM and high end monitors in general have gone through the roof.

            I just can't see how you can take say a PC Engine game, which is relatively very basic when it comes to resolution and colour pallette, and make it look 50% better than when using a Framemeister or OSSC on a decent LCD that is set up properly. What I see when using one of those scalers with really old hardware such as the Mega Drive, PCE, SNES, Neo Geo, is a really colourful vibrant image that is very attractive with scanlines turned on. I'd be amazed if a CRT monitor can deliver double the clarity and richness.

            When I went back to using a CRT recently, despite it not being anywhere near high end, I saw an image that feels different to LCD because of the glow and refresh rate of the CRT tech. I didn't think it was very much different in other areas compared to using a scaler with my LCD. I just can't imagine something like a Mega Drive game being able to suddenly look far nicer when using a high end monitor. You'd think they might actually show the limitations in resolution and colour depth up more. But if a high end monitor can make something like F-Zero on the SNES look incredibly more beautiful than on a regular Trinitron television or using a Framemeister/OSSC, then I really would be shocked.
            Last edited by Leon Retro; 26-07-2018, 21:06.

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              The whole thing is subjective. I used to have a Sony pvm. I know it was better than this Amiga monitor but my neo Geo looks great on this commodore CRT and I think I actually prefer it. On my plasma, through ossc, the image is crystal clear, with fabulous scanlines and I know there is no lag because I measured it myself. But... I still prefer to see it on my 14" CRT, probably just because I know that's where it's supposed to be.

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                Originally posted by Brad View Post
                The whole thing is subjective. I used to have a Sony pvm. I know it was better than this Amiga monitor but my neo Geo looks great on this commodore CRT and I think I actually prefer it. On my plasma, through ossc, the image is crystal clear, with fabulous scanlines and I know there is no lag because I measured it myself. But... I still prefer to see it on my 14" CRT, probably just because I know that's where it's supposed to be.
                It's definitely subjective to some degree, because the look and overall vibe of CRT screens can't be totally replicated on an LCD, however good the scaler is. There are clear characteristics of CRT tech that can be seen as a good thing, but also a bad thing to some people. Using a decent LCD with an OSSC can definitely deliver an image that some people might prefer over even the best CRT screens.

                I can easily appreciate why some people prefer to use a CRT with their retro machines. I also believe that a good condition PVM can deliver an image that beats even a top end Trinitron screen. But I just can't imagine how a PVM can make really old 240p games look double the quality of what you see with the OSSC on a good LCD with scanlines enabled. That really would amaze me.

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                  Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                  It's definitely subjective to some degree, because the look and overall vibe of CRT screens can't be totally replicated on an LCD, however good the scaler is. There are clear characteristics of CRT tech that can be seen as a good thing, but also a bad thing to some people. Using a decent LCD with an OSSC can definitely deliver an image that some people might prefer over even the best CRT screens.

                  I can easily appreciate why some people prefer to use a CRT with their retro machines. I also believe that a good condition PVM can deliver an image that beats even a top end Trinitron screen. But I just can't imagine how a PVM can make really old 240p games look double the quality of what you see with the OSSC on a good LCD with scanlines enabled. That really would amaze me.
                  Come over to Belfast for a night or two mate and i’ll put you up and give you a tour of the top pvm/bvms. I guarantee you will see the double and perhaps the triple ;-)

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                    Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
                    Come over to Belfast for a night or two mate and i’ll put you up and give you a tour of the top pvm/bvms.
                    Maybe I'm a sad person??? But that's actually a tempting offer. Would be nice to see a top quality PVM/BVM in action. I might end up having to spend £500 on one for myself.

                    Maybe it's best to stick with thinking the image using my OSSC looks great.
                    Last edited by Leon Retro; 26-07-2018, 23:19.

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                      I wonder if a good 4k display now has enough resolution that an emulator could output an image that rendered all the CRT nuances convincingly. I've seen options for phosphor type, screen curve etc. In emulation before. The pixel density is so high now that maybe it would work. Probably need a beast of a pc to do it though.

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                        Originally posted by Brad View Post
                        I wonder if a good 4k display now has enough resolution that an emulator could output an image that rendered all the CRT nuances convincingly. I've seen options for phosphor type, screen curve etc. In emulation before. The pixel density is so high now that maybe it would work. Probably need a beast of a pc to do it though.
                        When you think that a PC with a decent i5 and a Geforce 960 can be built for under £300, there's probably enough power to run emulators with all sorts of CRT filters. I personally don't like 'screen curve' filters though. Scanline filters are certainly much better than they used to be. You just need a few more filters to create a proper CRT look.

                        I realise that I'm not too fussy though. If the image looks clear and sharp with decent scanlines, I'm happy. The only time I think retro games look terrible is when feeding a pre-HD console direct into an LCD, or using emulation with image softening filters.

                        Maybe someone will create a 4K scaler with some nice CRT filters that look really effective.

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                          Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post

                          Maybe someone will create a 4K scaler with some nice CRT filters that look really effective.
                          Have you seen the CRT filter options in Sonic Mania Plus? They look rather good on a 4k display.

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                            Originally posted by CMcK View Post
                            Have you seen the CRT filter options in Sonic Mania Plus? They look rather good on a 4k display.
                            I tried looking at videos of the filter in action, but I haven't got a 4K screen, so can't really tell how nice the CRT filter looks. I imagine upscaling retro games to 4K with good scanlines etc... could look really nice. I did read that people are working on CRT filters for emulators that aim to really capture the look CRT screens.

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                              I picked up a Super Famicom Classic Mini and a Shonen Jump Famicom Classic Mini. My wife also picked up one of the latter. I wonder if CEX will take it.

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                                I always find that artificial scan lines never quite look realistic. They seem far too noticeable than they are on a real CRT. Sure, they exist on a real CRT but not in the way that emulators and stuff like the Framemeister portrays them.

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