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James Bond 25: No Time to Die

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    Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
    They need to rework the idea of a 00 agent as well for the new one. Brosnans was referred to as a relic whilst Craig passes his 00 license to then be referred to as a dinosaur for 4 films. Kind of reframe it for relevance
    I had a similar feeling.

    Upon watching No Time to Die, I thought-


    Why are all the villains in the Craig movies wildcat twisted sociopaths?

    And admittedly, that's not a fair assessment, because they're not all like that. But IIRC the villains in Skyfall, NTTD and Spectre were. And I guess many of the villains in the older movies were too.



    When I mentioned this, Blobcat pointed out that maybe it's because having villains who are slightly more realistic terrorists/believable military villains - people like Ourumov and Trevelyan in Goldeneye - who might be over-the-top characters but who have motivations that arise from real-world events (the fall of the Soviet Union, the execution of the Lienz Cossacks) create too many problems for writing. Like real-world events move so fast they're probably concerned of becoming like Rambo 3.

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      Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post
      I think you're making the classic mistake (as many do) of confusing the 00 rank with the person who holds the rank, tbh.

      Obviously, anybody can hold the rank of 007 (as NTTD proves). But obviously, not anybody can be James Bond.

      Maybe it's the character of Bond that needs reworking.
      Wasn't the trouble the role of a 00 Agent in the modern world as much as Bond being outdated in his personality? Hence things like Spectre where its framed around the idea that tech has replaced the need for such agents.

      But in terms of classic era vs Craig era, there are swings and roundabouts on it. There's a ton of elements the recent era are better at especially when they are firing on all cylinders. Had Brosnan knocked out four films on Goldeneye's level I'd have undoubtedly preferred that era but he was the victim of the studios obsession with dialling things up to 11.

      I'm more of the mind to compare the Craig era to another modern era spy series of action films where an over arching narrative was retrospectively woven into and applied after the fact - Mission Impossible. And there I have no issues preferring almost everything about those films except when Royale and NTTD are at their best.

      Something else I'd like for the reboot - Unrelate Blowfeld from Bond, that's never improved on any rewatch

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        I guess we’re just coming from a very different set of preferences. Brosnan may well be my least favourite Bond and even Goldeneye is not high up on my Bond list and I’m no fan of the Mission Impossible films so it should be no surprise that we end up with very different perceptions of the Craig Bond films.

        At least we can all agree that Bond was at its best when Jaws got a girlfriend.

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          Absolutely, I'm in a whatsapp group atm with a bunch of people basically discussing the Bond films as they are released each week at the cinema etc throughout the year and straight out the gate there's almost no consistency at all as to favourite entries and actors etc. It's a great mix of stories on who you grew up with and what tones and balances of menace, action, espionage and humour strikes each viewer.

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            Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
            Wasn't the trouble the role of a 00 Agent in the modern world as much as Bond being outdated in his personality? Hence things like Spectre where its framed around the idea that tech has replaced the need for such agents.

            But in terms of classic era vs Craig era, there are swings and roundabouts on it. There's a ton of elements the recent era are better at especially when they are firing on all cylinders. Had Brosnan knocked out four films on Goldeneye's level I'd have undoubtedly preferred that era but he was the victim of the studios obsession with dialling things up to 11.

            I'm more of the mind to compare the Craig era to another modern era spy series of action films where an over arching narrative was retrospectively woven into and applied after the fact - Mission Impossible. And there I have no issues preferring almost everything about those films except when Royale and NTTD are at their best.

            Something else I'd like for the reboot - Unrelate Blowfeld from Bond, that's never improved on any rewatch
            I definitely don't agree with comparing Craig's Bond films to Cruise's M:I. They're nothing alike. M:I stopped being a spy movie after the first one. They're literally now just stunt set-piece movies, even moreso than any modern Bond film, and Craig's Bond films definitely do storyline much, much better IMO.

            Agree with you in part about Blofeld - Christoph Waltz appears to have been wasted in the role, which is a shame as he's a great actor. But Blofeld is the iconic Bond villain so getting completely rid of him isn't really going to happen. Maybe the next generation of Bond films reintroduce Blofeld much later down the line?

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              Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
              Something else I'd like for the reboot - Unrelate Blowfeld from Bond, that's never improved on any rewatch
              Yep, totally. Stupid twist. I think Bond starts to unravel when people get too close to him; relatives, friends, lovers. The guy's an island.

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                Originally posted by Asura View Post
                I think Bond starts to unravel when people get too close to him; relatives, friends, lovers. The guy's an island.
                Given that Ian Fleming originally wrote Blofeld as being responsible for the killing of Bond's wife at their wedding day in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, I think it's quite understandable.

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                  Connery > Dalton > Casino Royale (Craig) > Moore > the point beyond which no one should care > everything else bar Brosnan > stepping in dog poo wearing new shoes > Brosnan.

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                    Originally posted by wheelaa View Post
                    Connery > Dalton > Casino Royale (Craig) > Moore > the point beyond which no one should care > everything else bar Brosnan > stepping in dog poo wearing new shoes > Brosnan.
                    The disrespect shown to George Lazenby though!

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                      Brosnan just read that

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                        I started watching Goldeneye on Prime Video last night.

                        I love it. I really do. Hasn't aged very well though. Then again, neither have many of the Bond films.

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                          It has Sean Bean though - Instawin

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                            Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                            It has Sean Bean though - Instawin
                            Most true.

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                              Originally posted by teddymeow View Post
                              I started watching Goldeneye on Prime Video last night.

                              I love it. I really do. Hasn't aged very well though. Then again, neither have many of the Bond films.
                              Brosnan's hair is huge

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                                Originally posted by Asura View Post
                                Brosnan's hair is huge
                                It's literally the thing that you focus on throughout the film!

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