Originally posted by Superman Falls
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Are they being addressed now? -
Nope, but that's why some voted for Brexit, to remove them as concerns. As much as immigration, NHS funding etc remain question marks for many who voted on that basis there will be a portion relieved to definitely be disassociated from many EU rulings, potential of a military force being set up etc. They may not happen but some just wanted to confirm our exclusion from that potential involvement.Comment
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Yeah, otherwise the UK would have been forced into it, just like we were with the Schengen Agreement, and the Economic and Monetary Union, and the Area of freedom, security and justice, and the partial opt-out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.Comment
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Yep. This is the thing. None of the concerns are being addressed now and very few of them were even real.Comment
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But that's a failure that lies at the feet of Cameron and the EU. They were/are incredibly poor at justifying themselves on several matters, a lot of EU citizen concerns about the EU as a body should be very easy to dispel but instead anti-EU sentiment grows as the EU leaders stroke their beards and wonder why people keep kicking off. Whilst the Leave campaign was riddled with issues and lies, the Remain campaign was the same but with an added level of incompetence... and they weren't even the side with Boris.Comment
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Last edited by MartyG; 03-04-2018, 15:08.Comment
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Yep, as Marty shows the stuff was there. And actually, even if it wasn't you can't lay blame for an irrational fear of the EU at the feet of the EU. That's ridiculous. People know what life is like in the EU because they were living it - the burden of showing anything different wasn't on them. Only one side here had to sell the idea of a new future and they succeeded but it was lies. The more time has passed, the more that it's very clear we're not in a 'both sides were as bad as each other' situation. As you say, none of the concerns are being addressed now. They won a vote but actually lost. It's a loss for everyone. The only reason to continue down the path now is stubbornness. It's like ordering some obscure fish dish on a menu because you mistakenly thought it was dessert and, when it arrives, you force it down so you don't look like an idiot... while everyone watches wondering why you're eating fish for dessert.Comment
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I keep coming back to the fact that the UK did REALLY well out of being in the EU. Way better than the other member states. That's not to say that we couldn't have done EVEN better. But ultimately, the chance of us doing better s very small compared to the chance of us doing the same or worse.Comment
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That's why I feel blame does partially lie with the EU as well as Remain etc. The links do prove that the info was there but equally at how poor Remain was at communicating them when doing so would have quite likely swung the result their way. Instead the Tory leadership got itself bogged down by Project Fear 2.0. If the EU was better at promoting its benefits there wouldn't be so much scepticism about it.
In the glass half full side, it's still incredibly too early to call whether Leave will be a bad thing in the end. Such economic shifts take a long, long time to settle and there are a lot of moving cogs in and out the EU at play over the coming decade. Personally, I feel like we may well be worse off, but I'm very doubtful it'll be by anywhere near as much as many think.Comment
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If someone shouts a bare-faced lie about someone, to blame that person because they didn’t shout the truth loud enough would be ridiculous. When the lie is exposed, to then continue with it because you bought into at one point would be even more ridiculous. To acknowledge that acting on the lie will make you worse off but maybe not as worse off as some think so that’s cool and we’ll act on it anyway plunges into the depths of just how ridiculous this could get. Everything here is ridiculous.Comment
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It's reasonable to blame them for that element if the truth is supposed to be on their side and they fail to use that advantage. Instead both Leave and Remain opted to lie, it still creates a stalemate that creates more of an argument for a clean slate rerun than it does the cancellation of the exit. The entire run up to the vote was a knotted mess fuelled by agenda's, personal ambition and individual desires on what the outcomes in years to come may be. Even half those links in evidence above are from Pro-Remain confirmed sites or ones I'd strongly suspect as such. It's not that the information in them may be false, but shows how binary and lacking in objectivity the issue became and remains. Any revisit of the subject wouldn't be any different next time.
The trouble with the concept of simply cancelling Brexit because of a distaste for the current state of the situation is it's a decision mostly based on assumption of the outcome. There is literally, Brexit or no Brexit, no going back to the way things where pre-2016. The reversal of Brexit wouldn't just be a simple case of staying in EU, it would be to grab the country by the horns and to drag it through all the issues and financial, social and economic pain all over again. Though this time, in a manner it certainly wouldn't recover from and one that would make the current situation look like child's play in comparison.
The key is to get Pre-Brexit UK out of people's minds and for both Leave and Remain voters and politicians to look at the realistic picture for staying with or reversing Brexit, it's an inevitability at this point but the lack of anyone convincingly getting to grips with it is far more embarrassing than the result of the vote at this point.Comment
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Backbenchers are forcing a vote next week that could mean that remaining in the Customs Union remains on the table as an option post-Brexit.
However, the outcome of the vote is purely advisory and Parliament could dismiss it.Comment
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Liam Fox effectively accuses the Lords of attempting to sabotage Brexit, saying questions should be asked about an unelected institution being able to overly interfere in elected decisions. He also urges Labour MP's to stop trying to uindermine the Tories at the expense of making Brexit work.Comment
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So basically saying that the sovereignty that was allegedly being threatened by the EU (but not really) doesn't work and the UK shouldn't apply its own systems of government.
Maybe Britain should exit Britain.Comment
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The same Liam Fox that took his unelected uncleared mate to MoD meetings and on international trips paid for by the tax payer?Comment
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