Little Things That Puzzle You 2: Twisted Membrane

[Dogg Thang]

It is a small domesticated carnivorous mammal with soft fur, a short snout, and retractile claws.

[Zaki]

A cat is also a pussy (mind blown).

[Zen Monkey]

Haha. That reminds me of Plato attempting to define what a human being is by concluding that man is a "featherless biped". Diogenes put him in his place:

[wakka]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...deaths-say-mps

Umm, no?
Am I missing something? E-Cigs are supposed to be transitional for people to work to quitting smoking aren't they? The people who stay vaping are doing it wrong yes?

Making them more publicly exposed than they already are also reintroduces several of the reasons they and cigarettes were restricted in the first place

Couldn't disagree more with this. I read the same article today and thought it was terrific news. Vaping has the potential to be HUGE for public health if more work is done to promote it to smokers as a healthier alternative, rather than a seedy or dangerous pursuit which is 'just as bad as smoking'.

On a risk/benefit analysis basis, do we discourage millions of adult smokers from switching, which would, the evidence shows, save the NHS billions and lots of lives, or do we try and marginalise it and stamp it out because teenagers might (but, the evidence shows, very likely won't) pick up the habit of vaping?

By the same token, those teenagers who do pick up vaping - if vapes weren't around, would they have picked up smoking instead? There's no study on this particular element that I've seen, but my instinct as someone who picked up smoking in their teens along with their friends would be that yes, many of them would.

Speaking as a heavy smoker of 10 years who switched to vaping about 9 months ago (shoutout to @J0e Musashi who is the one who sold me my vape), vaping is a tremendous, tremendous aid for people quitting smoking. It's unrivalled. I enjoy vaping and have no plans to quit it in the near future. One of the reasons that it has been so effective for me is that I liked smoking. This gives me something functionally very similar which is far healthier.

There's no reason why vaping should have to be 'transitional' when pursuits such as drinking - likely worse for you depending on how much you do it - are entirely acceptable as a frequent habit.

It might sound harsh, but to suggest otherwise is, to my mind, baseless moralising.

[Neon Ignition]

I don't disagree with you about the benefits to smokers who are aiming to kick the habit but at the same time I don't see the correlation that relaxing rules of vaping to the extent they've mentioned today would have any positive effect. The issue is more one of education, like you say there are plenty who see vaping as a bad habit as well but that's where the discussion about the NHS involvement would go as it makes sense that they would utilise it to help smokers kick the habit.

However it remains that less harmful is still harmful. As things stand the number of smokers in the UK is at an all time low meaning that it is working, we're already reaping the benefits so it raises a question as to how many more out of an already declining number are going to make the jump if they can vape in more places? Then there's the social issues, normalisation issues that could potentially lead to an increase of vapers that otherwise wouldn't have started etc. It seems much more likely that the real losers would be those who wouldn't have started in the first place (potentially) and those who don't want to go round smelling vapers chemical flavour smells. Let alone if long term studies unearth unknown health risks ala cigs. The real winners would be cig and marketing companies who would go bananas with their new promotional powers.

I do get the aspect that drink is allowed but to be honest I've never bought it as a defence. It's basically two wrongs make a right for that. If the government could find a way to transition people away from alchohol to non-alcoholic versions then they probably should. They can't though so its popularity is stuck.

Really, the main trouble with that MP proposal is that it's got very little in terms of how many remaining smokers would switch to vaping vs how many non-vapers would start once they were bombarded with it.

There are some good points in there though, vapers shouldn't have to have one outside surrounded by smokers, that's counter intuitive etc but the entire saga of restrictions against Cigarettes, their use and marketing has proven if anything that measured control can and does work.
It's also a textbook example as to why drugs will never be legalised in the way many wish.

[kryss]

A cloud of sickly-sweet vapour is preferable to the stick of cigarettes.
However, I remember when I tried vaping once and thought how easy it would be to get the nicotine addiction without the stink. That is basically my issue with it. It's a great thing for getting smokers away from cigarettes, far fewer butts being carelessly flicked around by people who think it is perfectly normal to throw these small firestarters away without putting them out. The friend who introduced me to it years ago had to get her ejuice from China as they didn't sell it with nicotine in Canada at that time.

But when she ran out of juice? Pack of cigs.

The next problem: weed e-juice. Yes, it exists.

[wakka]

@Superman Falls

You're right that education is a massive factor, and this proposal ties into that. But by making vaping more socially acceptable than smoking and easing some of the limitations around it, we stand to make it all the more attractive for smokers.

There are some figures on smokers switching versus new people taking up vaping, but I would love to see more on this, and I agree more information is needed.

We obviously come at this from different angles however, as I am also pro drug legalisation as a method of harm reduction - and I don't agree that controls necessarily do work as intended. You can get a bag of weed to your door faster than a Domino's in my area. However, that's a whole other can of worms!

[kryss]

There's a "safe/clean" place for users to shoot up downtown here - it has just lead to a massive increase in local crime. Legalisation is a whole different **** show.

[Neon Ignition]

That's it, I'm not a smoker as the one time I had a go it was as unpleasant as I thought it'd be but since growing up I had extensive family who were smokers, being dragged out round town in and out of places with smokers everywhere, then friends at high school getting into it with their 20p per cig selling to one another as well etc. I'm just in that right bell curve to have the distinct memories of growing up with hours in a smokey room, that odour pubs used to have, Russ Abbot lighting one up in a TV ad etc and the difference now is staggering. It's not uncommon for me to go weeks or a month or two without smelling someones cig smell and even then it's usually someone outside work or a shop to down a quick one before heading back in which is why it stands out so much now as its a gippy hit to the senses.

It's still amazing how little focus the government puts on the NHS and school system in tackling issues. They really should be available via the NHS as an extension of quit smoking programmes that offer relevant support to those looking to quit completely. It's like the recent discussion about cannabis via the NHS, it makes sense.

I imagine the vaping rules they're pushing for would struggle to get imposed outside of places like pubs etc now that no-smoking of any sort has become so widespread normalised. If two people on your office bank of desks vape, why should the others have to breath it in? The alternative is a bespoke vaping area, something few offices would be able to accommodate. It'd be ripe for employee complaints which from a business standpoint would be a bigger concern than one or two more people switching to vaping.

Buses, well, it'd go down like a lead balloon with the non-vaping majority. These places have been smoke free for longer than the restrictions exist in many instances. I imagine a fair amount of the people still smoking/vaping at this point will stick to doing so, all too aware of their options for years now. Steering the kids away on a more consistent basis is their best bet.

[Zaki]

Vapist - that's what you call someone who vapes, right?

[Zaki]

Effects of vaping on Oxford Street:

https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201612/fog-story_647_121116085938_0.jpg

[randombs]

I think they should just be quiet about vaping right now and let heavy smokers use it to transition or as an alternative to regular cigarettes.

Yes, there'll be people taking it up who never smoked before but let everything calm down. Then, once the number of traditional smokers has dropped significantly, the MPs can consider their options. In the meantime, let people freely research the effects of smoking and vaping.

We've already banned smoking indoors because of the health risks. Sure, people argued against it but it's happened. There's nothing to say vaping couldn't receive a similar ban in the future if it's found to also have reasonable health risks. If it's attacked before it's had time to mature then what alternatives are left for transitioning smokers?

[Zen Monkey]

Got a phone call over the weekend from a fella interested in some audio gear I have advertised online. I elaborate on the gear, he likes what he hears, wants my details, asks if I have whatsapp (I think that's what he said) installed on my phone. I tell him I don't have a mobile phone. His reaction was mental. Like it was the maddest thing ever.

You
Don't
Have
A
Mobile
Phone?


The way he said it... anyone would think he was watching an alien invasion.

People are funny.

[Zaki]

Got a phone call over the weekend from a fella interested in some audio gear I have advertised online. I elaborate on the gear, he likes what he hears, wants my details, asks if I have whatsapp (I think that's what he said) installed on my phone. I tell him I don't have a mobile phone. His reaction was mental. Like it was the maddest thing ever.

You
Don't
Have
A
Mobile
Phone?


The way he said it... anyone would think he was watching an alien invasion.

People are funny.

I thought that you'd be using a Nokia 3310 or similar

[speedlolita]

Smoke signals. :P