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BPX024: Time to Say Goodbye

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    #31
    One thing I do look forward to is the jostle between MS and Sony in their reveals. It paid off so spectacularly for Sony last time there'll be a huge amount of fumbling trying to out reveal each other this time

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      #32
      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
      Also, I very much doubt we see the base and mid gens for the next gen. Think that happened this gen because both MS and SONY more or less know they messed up with the Jaguar CPUs and I very much doubt they'll make that mistake next gen, not least with some great new CPUs online from both Intel and AMD.l
      I don't know if Sony mucked up in choice of hardware. If anything the opposite argument could be made. Clearly there were issues for MS in some of their choices and their direction at the time. Although I personally agree that there was a move towards much cheaper R&D and 'off the shelf' hardware that culminated in two machines with cheap, mobile APU's that were underpowered from the get-go.

      Although there's a wider debate on how long dedicated gaming machines may be around for, I think the additional revenue from the mid-gen upgrades probably makes them commercially worthwhile. Essentially you're getting to milk your hardcore for more money as they buy multiple machines and increasing their expenditure on your more profitable games and network services. Which may have not otherwise happened. Or in other words you giving opportunities for those that want to, to spend more money on hardware, accessories and services from you.
      Last edited by Digfox; 07-02-2018, 13:17.

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        #33
        Sony were pretty fortunate they were able to include 8GB of RAM in the PS4 at the last minute. A 4GB system competing against the 8GB + ESRAM Xbox would have seen this become a less one sided generation than ultimately transpired.

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          #34
          Originally posted by Mgear View Post
          I don't know if Sony mucked up in choice of hardware. If anything the opposite argument could be made. Clearly there were issues for MS in some of their choices and their direction at the time. Although I personally agree that there was a move towards much cheaper R&D and 'off the shelf' hardware that culminated in two machines with cheap, mobile APU's that were underpowered from the get-go.
          The GPU inside both systems was pretty good, its been the Jaguar side of the consoles that has let the side down and more or lesss made SONY plan the Neo Trouble was both MS and SONY couldn't really change the CPU midway in to the consoels cycle and had to make sure all old games would run. I just can't not see either corp messing up the choice of the CPU next gen

          I don't have any issues with off the shelf, its just both corps choose Jaguar for cheapness and with MS no doubt worries over heating and consoles failures and thanfully this time they be no fads over motion controls and crap like Kinect to get in the way either and there's some pretty good CPUs coming online

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            #35
            I think there is a valid debate that both machines had underpowered CPU and GPU parts. Certainly these were far less cutting edge consoles than what we had seen previously. As you say the GPU was far easier to upgrade. Even so I think there are better reasons than the performance of original base machines, for both the Pro and X to exist though. However obviously those base specs made the upgrade path far easier which was by design.
            Last edited by Digfox; 07-02-2018, 16:21.

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              #36
              It'll be interesting to see how they tackle the issue. Coming in at a maximum of £349.99 is an essential requirement and at the same time they have to offer a significant gain on PS4 Pro/XBX that is also capable enough to sustain the following 7-10 years. It's genuinely hard to see how they'll accomplish that given the current progression of tech

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                #37
                I doubt the next gen systems will launch at anything less than £400. Wafer costs are going up, newer process nodes aren’t offering the density and cost savings we used to see between nodes. 4K targeting systems will need loads of RAM and storage space all adding to the bill of materials substantially. And a hypothetical 8 core Ryzen and 12TF Navi APU will be physically huge and hot requiring some beefy cooling ala 1X.

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                  #38
                  All the more reason for them to hold off on launching them then
                  The XBX only gets away with its price point because of the nature of the machine and its intended audience, if it were the only Xbox One on the market MS would be out the race in double quick time. It fuels the notion to me that we may get a two tiered next gen reveal with base models that come in only a small improvement upon the Pro/XBX and then more core gamer focused expensive variants as otherwise the companies have no option but to launch with incremental new hardware and hope people will shell out again.

                  Another factor is backwards compatibility, if it's a thing in the new machines it's even harder for them to avoid Pro2/XBX2 comparisons which could damage reveal PR

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                    #39
                    I like to imagine where mobile GPUs will be in 5 years time. Regardless, I highly doubt the Switch 2 will be able to deliver 4K, at least natively. Maybe the dock could do some magic to help with that.

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                      #40
                      I just want them to start using a proper AA solution for docked mode, classic Nintendo

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                        All the more reason for them to hold off on launching them then
                        The XBX only gets away with its price point because of the nature of the machine and its intended audience, if it were the only Xbox One on the market MS would be out the race in double quick time.
                        2 to 3 years is a long time and £400 is cheap when you hold it up against what SONY asked for the PS3 back in 2007 for a then £425 quid. You just have to make one's product desirable and you can get away with a high price for the short term, more so as at launch it's only the die-hards and gamer nuts that will be the product then, while the masses wait for the price drops.

                        I don't see BC being much of an issue either if MS and SONY stick with AMD and its looks like both will. I hope for both one will be able to use their old controllers and games right out of the box.

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                          #42
                          Another possibility is that we're going to see more cloud gaming.

                          I know OnLive and Nexus Q was cancelled, but it feels like this is getting some momentum again.

                          With PlayStation Now, Blade, GeForce Now and AMD's LiquidSky already established and rumours of Sony's Phil Harrison purloined by Google to work on their "Project Yeti", I can imagine dumb terminals connecting to ever-upgrading virtual hardware being more prevalent.

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                            #43
                            The trouble with the £400 price point though is that no new gen system has ever launched at that point and been a real success, each system that launched at that price struggled as a result. Now, PS4 Pro is more powerful at the £350 price point than the base PS4 but we also don't get to see anything developed for it that truly demonstrates that so there's room for PS5 to be more powerful than a PS4 Pro whilst coming in at £350 and showing a true difference but it would mean the software being developed in a way that shows this jump. Shouldn't be an issue but the amount of lazy cross gen porting in the first two years of this gen suggests they'll struggle to justify the new hardware if they don't make an effort much faster.

                            MS seems committed to continuing BC with the next machine and beyond so potentially Xbox users are best positioned going forward where 'next gen' for them is mostly in name unless they actively block future games at that time from running on XBO and XBX.

                            Sony, they do seem to favour blocking it out to sell remasters still

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                              The trouble with the £400 price point though is that no new gen system has ever launched at that point and been a real success
                              The Amiga sold well enough at a super high price, so did the PS3 and if one takes account of inflation then systems that did rather well despite a high price tag on their release. To me its all about making people want your product, you do that then people find the money for it somehow

                              http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/10/0...with-inflation

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                                #45
                                For some reason I had this all running through my head last night and the distinct thought came to me that Microsoft is much more dangerously positioned than it currently feels like it is.

                                The company historically struggles to keep software under wraps, leaks have always somewhat dogged it and despite the software issues the Xbox One faces it's still looking incredibly dry looking forward. It's not unreasonable to assume that later this year Crackdown 3 will launch with Forza Horizon 4 and 343's new project leading the charge over Xmas primarily. Next year seems very likely to be something along the lines of Halo 6, Gears of War 5 and/or Forza Motorsport 8. The only real project knocked about is Fable IV though out of those 4 it's not hard to imagine Fable IV and either Gears or Halo getting kicked back as Xbox 4 launch titles in 2020.

                                Though each series is solid, it's an increasingly stale slate from MS and maintains that need for them to invest in new ip the same way Sony does. However, there's still little evidence MS is doing so unless they are doing so but are able to keep an incredible lid on it. If not then it's all too easy for Sony to maintain the momentum they've enjoyed all this gen if both the next rivals machines are similarly pitched again. It's not secret that Xbox One sales, on a worldwide basis, have been kept hushed but broadly considered as underwhelming and if that lack of propulsion leads them into a new generation then it's not hard to imagine a scenario where sales are even slower and they have to question whether they remain in the race or just reduce their efforts to W10 Store as Steam like store front and retire the Xbox console line

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