The Marvel Cinematic Multiverse

[Dogg Thang]

The script being done isn’t a big obstacle. They’re still a long way from shooting and Marvel have a history of changing things as they go, and early on even shooting before a script was locked. The biggest hurdle is that break and that’s where a truck full of money might come into play. Wait, I think I can hear the beeps of it backing up to his house right now... beep, beep, beep.

[Neon Ignition]

If I as a betting man I'd wager he's feeling able to take the year off safely because he's not doing Guardians 3 but knows that the pitch for Thor 4 him and Waititi submitted is likely to move forward.

[Neon Ignition]

http://www.darkhorizons.com/all-mcu-titles-getting-4k-remasters/

Marvel have confirmed that 4K remasters are on the way for every MCU movie

[Neon Ignition]

And the trailer for the final seasons of Jessica Jones, still part of the MCU (for now)

http://www.darkhorizons.com/final-trailer-jessica-jones-the-final-season/

[Asura]

Okay everyone, here's an interactive Endgame timeline:

https://orenbell.com/?p=272#endgame-container

It's pretty good, but it does point to some plot holes.

It all comes back to how I enjoyed the movie because I didn't put much stock into trying to analyse it; I just went along for the ride. I think if you do, it starts to fall apart a bit... But then it's a movie involving..

->Open Spoiler<-

time travel

... which nearly always creates either plot holes or plot contrivances.

[Dogg Thang]

What are the plot holes? I played with it for a bit but because of the mechanics, it’s not just all laid out to see. The only branch that I got that labelled plotholes can’t be considered plotholes because we never saw any of it happen and it’s speculation as to how it could have played out (and due to the nature of the story, there is nearly an infinite amount of possibilities).

[Asura]

What are the plot holes? I played with it for a bit but because of the mechanics, it’s not just all laid out to see. The only branch that I got that labelled plotholes can’t be considered plotholes because we never saw any of it happen and it’s speculation as to how it could have played out (and due to the nature of the story, there is nearly an infinite amount of possibilities).

For me, the holes are slightly broader.

->Open Spoiler<-

Parallel universe time travel creates a bunch of issues. In the process of the "heist" in Endgame, the characters **** up two alternate universes - one with Loki escaping, and another where they remove Thanos from his universe, which leaves Ronon there unchecked and Starlord in prison.

It also means that in this universe, quantum realities exist. This means there are an infinite number of Thanoses; some where he wins, some where he loses, some where he's the hero... And plenty where Tony Stark doesn't die.

I feel whenever that plot device is invoked, it removes a lot of the jeopardy. It's like that episode in Rick and Morty where they destroy the world, so they quantum teleport to a universe just like theirs where they're about to die, and just take their place. Rick is a sociopath, so he doesn't care, but naturally Morty struggles with it.

That being said, I'm fine with it and still loved the movie, because the overall movie was great and I'm not going to quibble over this kind of minutae. It doesn't bother me that much, but I can see why it bugged some people.

It's like that bit of Pacific Rim - "No, the EMP won't have affected Gypsy Danger! She's not electrical, she's nuclear!" I think there's two kinds of people; those who can see past that and those for whom, at that moment, the movie stopped dead. I was in the former group, some people are in the latter.

[Dogg Thang]

None of those things are plot holes. You don’t have to like them as plot devices but they aren’t plot holes. A plot hole is a mistake or inconsistency in the narrative, effectively where the story breaks its own rules.

[Asura]

None of those things are plot holes. You don’t have to like them as plot devices but they aren’t plot holes. A plot hole is a mistake or inconsistency in the narrative, effectively where the story breaks its own rules.

Okay, if we're going to be literal about it:

->Open Spoiler<-

This bit, at the end:

Cap collects all the stones and Mjolnir. After jumping between alternate realities (plothole) without creating new branched realities (plothole),

[Dogg Thang]

That’s not a plothole. The reason is simple: it is the assumption of the viewer. We see none of that happen. We know what the mission is. We don’t even get told if it was successful. We don’t know any of the details or how it worked or how it went. We know literally nothing about what happened on that journey. Any hole is created by the mind of that writer based on assumptions that the movie itself never once jumps to.

This is the thing. Many movies have plot holes and the Marvel movies are likely riddled with them. But it is not necessarily a plot hole if A) you didn’t get it (I mean a general you, not you specifically) or B) because the movie didn’t show it happen or C) because you filled in gaps in your mind and the way you filled it in doesn’t match the movie. Those things are not plot holes.

One of my biggest issues with the latest Godzilla was the amount of exposition and that I felt it was unneeded. It’s like they felt the audience couldn’t figure things out themselves. And yet after any big movie is released, there are articles of plot holes that weren’t plot holes and seemingly lots of people who didn’t get basic stuff. So maybe Godzilla writers have it right.

[Neon Ignition]

After a while I think the time travel aspect of Endgame is one I can just roll with but on paper its not a very good method of telling the story. It lends itself to the inclusion of lots of fan pleasing moments like we saw but it has wider negative implications for the MCU. If the film had had the remaining Avengers set out for a last desperate attempt to retrieve a damaged but still functional Infinity Gauntlet off the original Thanos from IW I'm not sure what would have been lost by telling that story straight instead of introducing all the time travel gubbins.

[Dogg Thang]

it has wider negative implications for the MCU.

Yep. Like I had said at the time, one thing that hugely surprised me was how easy they made it. I would have though they would have built in some fairly devastating consequences to prevent them doing it every movie. As it is, it is a device that means they can access any object ever at any point. Even getting the stones, they could do so any time they fancied using them again.

[QualityChimp]

I think it works better than a pure "let's beat up Thanos" again because you needed that desperation and defeat at the start.

One of my fave bits in this was when:

->Open Spoiler<-

Ant-Man turns up at the Avengers base and you're wondering how are they going to sort this and he starts telling them about the Quantum Realm and how time works differently and the music changes. I sat up in my seat in anticipation! Loved it!

Also, I laughed at this:

[QualityChimp]

Also, I've started re-watching all of the Marvel films.

Iron Man.
I can't believe how well this still holds up!
It's a lot of fun and great seeing the seeds planted for the following films.

The Incredible Hulk.
I want to like this more, but it doesn't have the trademark humour of the subsequent Marvel films.
It's also pretty generic. As one critic said it's "The Adequate Hulk".
It does everything you expect it to: Thunderbolt Ross grumping after Banner; Banner trying not to Hulk-out; Betty the woman he loves but can't be near; Hulk punching monsters the same size and so on, but it never really thrills.
It's OK and worth watching for completion, but Universal's ties means we'll never see a World War Hulk or Red Vs. Green Hulk movie.
It's on Netflix, btw.

[Zaki]

Also, I've started re-watching all of the Marvel films.

Iron Man.
I can't believe how well this still holds up!
It's a lot of fun and great seeing the seeds planted for the following films.

Still my favourite Marvel film