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RUSSIA is innocent - what is happening to the world? Россия восторжествует!

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    #16


    I created a meme.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Sketcz View Post
      Based on... What evidence?
      The UK Government is basing it on this: https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...87nat05_e_.pdf

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        #18
        I'm fine admitting my view on it is that it's mostly gut feeling led but I don't feel that those levying blame at Russia are wrong in questioning the countries response to being accused. I do think it's perhaps one thing to say it ties back to Russia and another to implicate Putin himself but then there will also be a lot of information that isn't being released to the public. Personally, I feel considering past similar cases, it's very unlikely so many nations would be quick to turn on Russia if there wasn't undisclosed fairly damning evidence that tied it back. It benefits no-one to fling unfounded claims at this level around.

        Don't get me wrong though, I don't see Russia as a moustache twirling villain. Every country will be up to all sorts of shenanigans, it's just Russia doesn't do much to foster good will with the others.

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          #19
          It's not as if it's the first time this sort of thing has happened to persons originally from Eastern Europe/Russia living in the West, so that rather goes against Russia as being the culprit, rather like knowing Deli Alli is probably going to dive in the box and thus not win a penalty. History and all that, point C and D in the statement.
          Lie with passion and be forever damned...

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            #20
            Originally posted by that download
            We must all do all that we can to bring perpetrators of chemical weapons attacks to
            justice, whoever they are, and wherever they may be.
            Fixed.

            Really. Chemical attacks bad. Gun attacks fine?

            Comment


              #21
              Literally the only people who are raising the threat of full-scale war over identifying the targeted attempted assassination of Skripal as Russian state action are people on the far-right and far-left. Reminds me of when the same people were crying about "Warmonger Killary" and so on before the last American presidential election.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                The UK Government is basing it on this: https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...87nat05_e_.pdf
                Thanks for this, it re-affirms my original post. They claim four points of evidence, A, B, C, and D.

                A) This is basically them saying "we know the name of what poisoned the guy".

                B) This, if anything, might imply Russia was not responsible. It's basically "Russia is capable of making or getting this". Not even remotely damning - the USA also has access. Russia would not have used something traceable back to itself (I know, I have family who worked for the KGB back in the day).

                C & D) These are hilarious reasons. Basically, "we don't like Russia and they have a bad reputation which might mean they could do it."

                The whole "reputation" or track record argument is especially laughable, since the British government has the worst track record for **** like this. Remember Iraq? Remember weapons of mass destruction, and someone sexing up the document? Remembering all the damned sexing that went on?!



                Chilcot report into Iraq war tells how intelligence agency feared a source’s information had been lifted from Hollywood thriller featuring Nicolas Cage


                https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...d-intelligence (change the ****)

                A UK intelligence agency might have based part of a report on Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction on a movie starring Nicolas Cage.


                MI6 was misled to believe Saddam Hussein was producing WMD by a false agent who based his reports on a Hollywood action movie.


                Of all the evidence that document claims, 50% is simply "they have a reputation for this" - despite the fact the UK government itself has a reputation for outright ****ing lying to the public. I could post URLs of the Iraq WMD scandal all day. No one went to prison, no one had their balls chopped off, no one was held accountable for it, and now again we have the government lying to us.
                Last edited by Sketcz; 16-03-2018, 19:11.

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                  #23
                  Mod note: Don’t bypass the swear filter by using photographs containing the F word. Deleted.
                  Last edited by Colin; 19-03-2018, 08:35.

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                    #24
                    The sense that Corbyn is going to lead to his own derailing over this is growing. I do get his stance but if LBC was correct that he hasn't been briefed and hasn't seen any of the investigation data then he won't be in a place to confront May effectively so he's mostly just undoing his own momentum by challenging her on it.

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                      #25
                      The issue here is that May and her cronies have as nearly as little credibility as Putin. This is what happens if you continually cry wolf.

                      Who believes a word that Theresa 'There won't be a snap election' May & Boris '350 million for the NHS' Johnson spout out of their mouths?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        True but we're mostly looking at three scenarios:

                        A-The UK Government has solid evidence linking the Russians to the assassination attempt which has led to the swift support of the EU and US in condemning Russia's actions

                        B-The UK Government has little to no evidence linking Russia to the assassination attempt and the EU and US have rallied quickly behind the UK with no basis out of blind support

                        C-The UK Government has implicated the Russians as part of a large scale conspiracy created in conjunction with the US and EU governing nations

                        I'd expect the Tories to at some point indicate details as to the nature of their evidence and how they reached that conclusion however they'll never hand the evidence over the public domain, they never do. It's understandable nothing has been presented to the Russians either... yet, they'll have to justify the claims at some point though Putin will refute anything, even if its true, anyway so that won't matter to the public whether any claims are accurate or not in the end.

                        It's an awkward scenario to decrypt from a public stance, and I doubt that anyone holding a particular view of who's at fault here will ever get anything resembling a news story that changes their mind. For me though, whilst I can understand some scepticism about anything the Tories say, I do currently find the idea of the poison having some sort of link to Russia (rather than Putin himself though I can see how people get to that view too) easier to swallow than the UK orchestrating such an immense scale of deception that would eclipse any past lies they've publicly made (given it's borderline an act of war) whilst winning such swift support from allies that have been fairly frosty of late.

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                          #27
                          You've missed the scenario where it's another country entirely - the whole premise of the UK's stand point is only the Russians could have made the toxin and that simply isn't true: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...with-the-opcw/

                          Given this was the most deadly fast acting toxin known to man and military grade at that, it didn't do a very good job. That said, the Russia involvement does seem quite likely I'd agree, but Boris's parlance with the truth is now biting him in the ass.

                          Remember that B was the scenario when we decided to go to war in Iraq. Another reason why there's so little trust in what the government tells the people.
                          Last edited by MartyG; 19-03-2018, 11:28.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            True, an normally I'm in the habit of dismissing Boris but he's very far from alone like usual in his comments and by now he'd have been slapped for opening his mouth. Certainly it could be another country, though again I'd find it very curious that the UK and other nations would be so quick to throw blame on Russia without a trail to follow. Unlike Iraq, Russia is a sleeping nuclear power giant so it's a much bigger game trying to lead us down the path we're setting out on by being so flippant in pointing the finger.

                            If it does indeed turn out that the Tories have risked international relations and the outbreak of a new Cold or even outright War then they deserve international scorn, let alone making the case that the party be outright disbanded. It just feels like it's a case of believing Russia did X or the UK has done X times 1000.

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                              #29
                              The EU's statement on this isn't blaming Russia directly as the UK is though: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8262966.html

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Once again zero factual information which is going to lead to an absolute s**t show with the Russians, which I’m sure is playing out behind the scenes as we speak.

                                If it was a weapons grade nerve agent there would be 100’s-1000’s dead almost straight away, so who’s spread that bs in the first place?

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