Good must prevail:
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Marxism/communism killed at least as many people during the 20th century as Nazism and fascism. ‘Modern’ Marxist states like the PRC, with their lack of democracy and authoritarian police-state structure, hardly sound like fun either.Comment
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Part of the problem, I think, is how people see these things as completely polarised; like you're either capitalist or marxist. You can make changes to society to improve equality that don't require a switch to communism. I mean right now, in the UK, the NHS is (in a sense) a redistribution of wealth. It's funded by tax (much of which is taken from wealthy people who don't use it).Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View PostComment
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At first glance, I thought they were carrying a massive Mario hat.
Originally posted by Sketcz View PostGood must prevail:
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I've seen this argument against Marxism/Communism/Socialism raised a lot, and I find it ridiculous. How many people has Capitalism killed in the last century? How many people died in wars which profit the military industrial complex? How many have been poisoned by corporations which, in pursuing profit, dump toxins into our environments? How many are injured or die because cost cutting led to cheaper materials? The cities without clean water in the US, like Flint? The Grenfell disaster where they used the cheaper cladding? The Keystone oil pipe which went through indigenous people's land and subsequently there was a massive spill? Nestle and its water scandals in Third World countries? The number of homeless on the UK's streets? The destruction of the NHS? People forced into modern slavery because they are underpaid and have increasing debts? Amazon workers have to piss in bottles on the work floor because they're monitored and timed if they take a toilet break.Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
All of these examples are the result of capitalism's pursuit of profit, instead of a society which revolves around protecting its people and improving everyone's quality of life. If we taxed corporations harder, instead of letting them have offshore headquarters, we could invest that money in free healthcare, free education, and free housing.
Vodaphone, EE, Amazon, Starbucks, all these corporations, their management all deserve to hang.
It's Sunday and I don't feel like spending hours citing hundreds of further examples. Capitalism is a destructive force which creates misery for the majority. Trickle down economics has been proven to be a lie, as the rich just hoard more and more of it, until we now have the 99 / 1% split.
Because your mind conjures up images of examples which people label "Communist" and are in your opinion failures, you are wilfully dismissing the positives which M/C/S promotes.
My view is akin to that of Asura's. Though I posted the glorious Communist art above, my ideology is closer to that of Socialist post-war Britain. We brought about the NHS, the greatest and perhaps only genuinely altruistic invention of the 20th Century. University Education was free, right up until 1998 - it was abolished by New Labour, which might as well have called itself the Red Tory Party for all the ruin it brought us. There was also a proper social housing scheme.
Now there are thousands sleeping on the street and eating out of bins. It's a shame there's no one to rally the nation's homeless and have them march on parliament. My core beliefs are free healthcare, free education, and no private ownership of land or industry - it should all be state owned. Look at the bloody price of the trains in the UK since being privatised. I still weep for the introduction of student fees.
As for the People's Republic of China, I do not regard them as being truly Communist, regardless of the name they apply to themselves. Again, you're fixating on the words/names applied, rather than how that society and government actually operates, and how it looks after its populations versus the degree to which it keeps corporations regulated, and the prescribed tenets which are put forth by non-capitalist ideologies. To dismiss these concepts is to admit openly to not caring about people born into poverty. Maybe you are a wealthy lawyer, Protocol Penguin, or an investment broker, or something else, earning a six figure salary each year and your children will be set for life, able to be educated on their father's dime. Good for you for being born into a situation that made that easy for you.
I'm quoting this separately because it's an entirely different argument. But I despise democracy. I utterly, utterly despise it. Giving the unthinking proles of the world so much power has brought nothing but trouble. Trump as president. The train wreck that is Brexit. The Tories sticking to power. Etc.lack of democracy
The inherent problem with the democratic process is that people do not think. They're uneducated, since university is expensive. Their minds are too easily swayed by expensive looking propaganda and lies. Look at Brexit and that damned bus.
Also, why should young people who have no experience in life hold as much power as someone in their mid-30s who might be an economics professor, or a doctor? Why should retirees in their 70s have the power to sway society for decades to come when they might die at any moment? Especially given that older generations like that tend to still have antiquated views at odds with modern society? Why is a meat factory worker given the same power as someone highly educated?
I like benevolent autocracies. The proles need to be paid an excellent living wage, looked after by the nanny state, allowed free or cheap housing, cheap public transport, free healthcare and education, and they need to be protected - from corporations, politicians, and from themselves, that's why they should not be allowed to vote. They are a volatile mass and they need to be subjugated, but very comfortable and very content with their lives. Possibly also drugged. A sort of gilded cage for the common, brow sweating, salt of the earth labourer, but one which they are not necessarily consciously aware of.
But if you must have this damned filthy democracy of yours, at least implement it logically, by adjusting the level of control each person can exert. Anyone aged between 28 and 48 gets two votes to play with due to hopefully increased wisdom with age but also young enough to face the consequences of their vote. Doctors, professors, teachers, nuclear physicists, other scientists etc. all get an extra vote because they're more intelligent. Maybe parents get one extra vote because they'll also be thinking of their children's future? Whatever. This needs debate and thinking through. But frankly, I kinda like China's system. You have a big room full of people who have earned the privilege to vote. Maybe adopt a system similar to that in Starship Troopers. Only citizens can vote, and you need to earn citizenship in some way.
Also, we're not far off a police state. The UK has an extremely high level of constant surveillance and the government monitors online actions.Last edited by Sketcz; 06-05-2018, 11:55.Comment
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That’s as clichéd as it gets in terms of Soviet-style whattaboutery. Practically textbook stuff.
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China's system is leading them towards a dictatorship, nothing good is coming to the Chinese.
I'd agree the democratic systems in place are broken but even in their current state they offer safeguards. They may have brought the world Trump, but they also stop him or someone much worse being in power indefinitely.Comment
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Yep. Your point is really indicative of this whole thread for me. Democracy is broken (yeah, kind of) therefore worse systems must be better. We don't trust our government (yep) therefore we'll trust governments already proven to be way less trustworthy. One thing being less than perfect, compromised or flat out broken does not by default make something else better.Comment
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This could prove an interesting development, Sergei Skripal has finally been discharged from hospitalComment
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Lmfao!Comment
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I honestly cannot believe the insanity of what I've been reading from the mainstream press. The head of the EU, Juncker, is openly stating we need to stop with the anti-Russian hysteria and propaganda, and a move away from the USA given it's attempt to destabilise world trade. And then the UK government claims that we will be under the threat of Russia for years to come.
Interesting that. How the UK is trying to burn bridges with the EU, and Theresa May has her head so far up Trump's arse she can see the cavities in his back molars
Russia-bashing must stop, says Jean-Claude Juncker
31 May 2018
Britain faces 'full spectrum' of Russian threat for 'years to come', MP's report says
4 June 2018
I miss being part of the EU, and I am tired of this government's relentless assault on our senses, trying to instil fear and paranoia, working on the basis the average person is an idiot, and yet behaving like complete morons themselves.
This is a fine kettle of fish. The EU is severing ties with the USA, normalising relations with Russia to improve trade, while the UK pushes itself out in the Atlantic, alone, thinking big daddy Trump is going to save the economy once we're out of the EU, all while the Tories destroy the Socialist safety net and human rights legislation that had previously protected the workforce. The economy is tanking, the rich are getting richer, and the average gormless prole is suffering.
The UK is turning into the USA.
The big squeeze: In slow-bleed Britain, austerity is changing everything
After eight years of budget cutting, too many communities are looking less like the rest of Europe and more like the United States, with a shrinking welfare state and spreading poverty
And the media tries to make this is not only normal, but how things should be.Comment
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Haha - nice reference!
My favourite book.Comment
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The EU will soon swing positions again when it comes to the USA. I feel like their current stance is less about America and more about Trump, the second they're sure about him leaving office they'll start fluffing the US's boudoir pillows for another snugglefestComment
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