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Retro|Spective 50: AM3-Hitmaker

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    #16
    Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
    GTA3 was always going to be Sony's 'killer app' that would really grab people's attention.
    Not sure I agree with that. Bear in mind that GTA2 came out on Dreamcast, and GTA3 kinda came out of nowhere. People forget that when GTA3 came out, it wasn't a smash seller like Vice City. It picked up steam over a number of weeks, and only then started to sell out everywhere. It was the perfect example of a grassroots success that spread via word-of-mouth. There was zero anticipation for it; pre-GTA3 there was even the idea that Driver had kinda supplanted the GTA series, what with GTA2 not setting the world alight and Driver 2 having many of the features that would later make GTA3 so popular.

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      #17
      That's an amazing portfolio. I'd forgotten about that Sonic trackball game. I do remember seeing screenshots in mags for it but I never saw the machine anywhere. It looks brill.

      Man, Dreamcast's European marketing was utterly dreadful. In trying to be cool and cutting edge, and reach a broader market, it lacked any sense of fun or connection to the product. Arsenal FC, no. Malcolm McLaren, no. Robbie Williams, no. Haircut races, no. Branding colours akin to office equipment, no. It was all bad.

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        #18
        I feel like I've read somewhere that the Dreamcast had failed before it even launched as Sega's situation after the Saturn was so poor that even releasing another console represented a bad business decision.

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          #19
          I love Manx TT. There can't be many games now that offer so much fun for such a cheap price.

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            #20
            I suppose the fact it was up against (what would become) the most successful console ever didn't help either.

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              #21
              Of the games in the list:

              -SegaSonic: I only ever played briefly via emulator as it was genuinely too awkward to control without the trackball and I never saw a machine out in the wild.

              -Decathelete: I spent quite a large amount of time on this on the Saturn. Hard to say why by of this type of game this was the one that appealed to me the most. In opposition I spent little time with Winter Heat.

              -Sega Rally: To this day the best entry, took a while to click with me because of that drift mechanic but once it does it was just brilliant and felt better to play than RR even if the sequels were misses.

              -Last Bronx: If I'm honest, I get what they intended with the game but its appeal always fell below VF, FV and FM from Sega for me. It's solid enough but not that appealing.

              -Virtua Tennis: Does the game well but I was never that bothered by the series

              -Crazy Taxi: Just ruddy awesome and like Rally, the original is the best entry before the sequels messed up the formula.

              -Star Wars Racer Arcade: Not that great a racer but the machines recreation of the pod controls always kept it appealing

              -Cosmic Smash: I wanted to play this for ages before eventually getting access to it late on with Summer of Dreamcast thread. It was okay in the end but didn't grab me like I'd hoped.

              -Segagaga: Never played it but remember watching the final boss vid that is just brilliant.

              -Initial D Special Stage: Owned this after loving the Ver.2 arcade machine but the language barrier stopped me putting in the time I'd have liked to. The core game is great though.

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                #22
                Decathlete is the best track and field game ever made, so much fun to play and a brilliant line up of characters too. It also looked amazing, with Model 2 like visuals and all running at 60 fps and in 704x480 res.
                Last edited by Team Andromeda; 20-07-2018, 12:55.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                  Decathlete is the best track and field game ever made, so much fun to play and a brilliant line up of characters too. It also looked amazing with Mode 2 like visuals and all running at 60 fps and in 704x480 res.
                  It beats that over-rated Konami PSX effort any day of the week.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Asura View Post
                    Not sure I agree with that. Bear in mind that GTA2 came out on Dreamcast, and GTA3 kinda came out of nowhere. .
                    Well, it's easy to see why GTA3 set the world alight compared to GTA2 on the Dreamcast. GTA3 was a truly groundbreaking title, whereas GTA2 seemed quite old fashioned by around the year 2000.

                    So I'm essentially saying that the PS2 getting a 'killer app' like GTA3 - a game that felt like something really new and cutting edge, wasn't a coincidence. No, top publishers and studios were very much focused on Sony's new machine. So behind the scenes there was probably lots of pro-PS2 stuff going on. That as well as the media creating hype that suggested the PS2 was going to be truly groundbreaking, helped create huge momentum for the PS2 before it launched. I remember people back in 1999 saying they're not buying a Dreamcast because they'd rather wait for the PlayStation 2.

                    By the end of the '90s, Sony and the PlayStation brand had become not only cool and trendy in the minds of consumers, but the games industry had also fallen in love with the brand and Sony's approach to gaming. All that positivity made it near impossible for Sega to compete. Despite the Dreamcast being good tech and having some impressive games. I don't think it ever stood a chance of competing with the PS2, simply because the world of gaming had become enamoured with Sony, to the point where companies like EA wouldn't support Sega, and groundbreaking games like GTA3 were always going to be important PS2 killer apps that all sorts of gamers would embrace. Sega just didn't have enough ammunition in its arsenal - and allies within the modern gaming industry - to make a comeback against Sony and its PlayStation brand.

                    Of course, this has been talked about a lot, so it's essentially all about the rise of Sony, and the fall of Sega. Has anyone written a book about how Sony took on Sega and Nintendo and won?
                    Last edited by Leon Retro; 20-07-2018, 15:01.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                      I suppose the fact it was up against (what would become) the most successful console ever didn't help either.
                      The DVD player was a big part of it. I knew a fair few people at the time who bought the PS2 specifically for that reason. If you were planning to buy one anyway, it was like you were getting the PS2 for an extra £50. It was a real bargain, and certainly a factor in why I bought mine.

                      Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                      Decathlete is the best track and field game ever made, so much fun to play and a brilliant line up of characters too. It also looked amazing, with Model 2 like visuals and all running at 60 fps and in 704x480 res.
                      Agreed. I personally quite like the recent Sonic/Mario ones, but those have a lot of novelty that carries them a bit. Athlete Kings, to me, is just the ultimate refinement of the T&F concept, with ONE problem - it's 2-player instead of 4.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                        Decathlete is the best track and field game ever made, so much fun to play and a brilliant line up of characters too. It also looked amazing, with Model 2 like visuals and all running at 60 fps and in 704x480 res.
                        I clearly remember how astonishing Decathlete looked back in the day. I also really liked the range of characters and overall vibe of the game. Was a lot of fun to play as well. I really need to boot it up sometime.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Asura View Post
                          The DVD player was a big part of it. I knew a fair few people at the time who bought the PS2 specifically for that reason. If you were planning to buy one anyway, it was like you were getting the PS2 for an extra £50. It was a real bargain, and certainly a factor in why I bought mine.
                          Well, that's very true. And it also highlights how Sony got the timing right. I doubt they could have included a DVD drive in 1998-99. By 2000, people had heard about the DVD format and obviously wanted to get their hands on a DVD player. So when they found out the PS2 could play DVDs, it boosted the appeal of Sony's new machine even further. Sony took full advantage of the momentum gained from the original PlayStation's success and made sure the PS2 was the must-have machine at the time. The Xbox and GameCube, despite also being very good machines, wouldn't be able to rival the PS2. The PlayStation brand was just too strong throughout the world of gaming for anyone to match it during that period.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Asura View Post
                            But things move quickly. By 1999, circumstances had changed. The students who had bought into the Playstation in the mid-90s were now urban professionals. More people understood videogames than ever before, and by 2000, it was perfectly reasonable to - SHOCK - show videogames in their advertising, along with a bit of stuff that vicariously communicates the experience of playing them.
                            I didn't mind the flashy adds and trying to copy SONY (like how SONY copied what SEGA did in the 16 bit days) but the PS brand was established when it went for the facy adds with no gameplay or showing off the system, The DC wasn't established at all and worst still SEGA was not even showing off what the Actual DC unit even looked like in the ads.

                            So the people were totally clusless as to what SEGA was selling. Muppets run SEGA Europe in the DC era.

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                              #29
                              Was Winter Heat a decent follow up to Decathalete? Still don't know why I never bothered with that one given the time the first game got

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                                Was Winter Heat a decent follow up to Decathalete? Still don't know why I never bothered with that one given the time the first game got
                                Its just has good, but adds in a 4 player mode at the expense of the Highest Saturn screen mode. But its ace fun

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