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Canon-Strike VI: Marvel Cinematic Universe

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    #46
    For Captain America, I don't think I can fully convey the soft spot I have for that movie. It's one of the few times an entry feels like it breaks from the 'MCU tone' and as usual it's to the films benefit. Cap is such a hard sell and certainly was at the time but the idea of having that entry entirely focused on WWII era but in that Rocketeer style is genius as it wraps the character in a bit of a comfort blanket for the audience thanks to how much it reminds you of other well liked films. It does a great job of explaining his motivations as well, he's already a morally strong character but over the course of the film his ethical code going forward as well as his decision making skills are honed by the lessons he learns from those around him.

    It may not have been originally planned as well but I like that the film sows the set up for the next film, elements of its own sequel several MCU films later and even moments for Infinity War all those years later. As much as people love Iron Man I find this film to be the most successful MCU origin film outside of Guardians as had it failed it's hard to imagine the path the MCU took resembling how it does now or working as well without having Captain America established in such a likeable way and without him providing that moral code that ties the others together as no other character fills that role the same.

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      #47
      I feel about Captain America the way Asura feels about Thor - if they could make a movie about this character work, they could do anything. I am NOT a fan of Captain America at all so I went in fully expecting to dislike the movie because, really? How could you make a decent movie about such a jingoistic creation? He’s basically propaganda. Well joke’s on me because I loved the movie. The setting was great but, most of all, I totally bought into Steve Rogers and wanted things to go right for him. I think they wrote him really well but also Evans played him perfectly. Not bad for the Human Torch.

      It’s a really good movie. And it stands up to rewatches, even in the context of the now much larger Marvel movies.

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        #48
        One thing I like, given how much focus goes on to Winter Soldier and how the Russo's only came into the MCU with that sequel, is that they keep calling back to the original film too. It's nice that they go back to it in a nice way with each film they do, it's really informed their films and could have easily been forgotten once Cap entered the modern world. With Winter Soldier you have the whole return to boot camp sequence with Zola and him getting his old suit from the Museum, Civil War directly ties in with the Bucky storyline and taking a little time to deal with Peggy's end and Infinity War pays off the Red Skull disappearance. Some glances in the trailer for Endgame suggests the original and best Cap suit is getting dusted off again too.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
          Well joke’s on me because I loved the movie. The setting was great but, most of all, I totally bought into Steve Rogers and wanted things to go right for him.
          I think the way they took him in the movies was great, too. Not enough is said of his hallucination in Age of Ultron. Thor and Iron Man see their failure, where everyone dies; that's their greatest fear. Steve Rogers sees his success - he has won, they are victorious, yet as a living weapon, no-one needs him anymore. That's his deepest, darkest fear, and it's far more meaningful than the others.

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            #50
            Movie 06 - The Avengers
            The culmination of Phase One, Avengers sought to successfully merge the heroes of the existing films into one adventure in a way that hadn't been done before. We see more of Shields operations, Stark forced to face working as a team member rather than under his own sole ego, Cap trying to settle into the modern world and Thor following up on the end of his solo film as Loki returns to lay claim on the Tesseract in a film that also lightly sets up the rolling arc for Thanos. The films events go on to be regularly referenced in future films.



            Were the events of the first Avengers film important to the overall arcs of the series and its characters?

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              #51
              Movie 07 - Iron Man 3
              The first of the MCU trilogies to come to a close, the third Iron Man built its plot directly around the aftermath of the previous Avengers movie with Tony suffering from PTSD as a result of that films final battle and him bearing witness to the scale of the threat existing in space. It also focuses around a threat born of Tony's old ways as a way of underlining that he is no longer the same man he was pre-IM1. A controversial addition to the canon was Ben Kingsley's Tony Slattery, initially a well received portrayal of The Mandarin that then u-turned on the audience (though it was a reveal that was effectively retconned in the later one-shot that was filmed revealing the real Mandarin was out there still). The film seemingly closed out by saying Tony no longer needed to feel so dependent on his tech.



              In hindsight, how important was Marvels first attempt at closing a trilogy?

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                #52
                Iron Man 3 is one of my favourite Marvel movies. It has one of only TWO moments across all the Marvel movies that surprised me (guess the other). Where in Iron Man 2 I didn't buy the Stark/Rhodes friendship and I'll confess I thought it was down to Cheadle (I was wrong), the friendship here came through so strongly and the characters generally just felt better. Stark was still an ass but gained so much more humanity in this movie and I loved that. We've discussed it already but I think he demonstrates more character and more development than any other character in Marvel movies but, unfortunately, it ends here. Generally the movie has much more of a human heart. And it's fun.

                I loved how the suits were treated largely like vehicles. That's essentially what they are but I never really thought about it until this movie. Because they are human shaped I tended to think of them as costumes but the function they serve is much more like a vehicle and this movie recognises that. The device of having them split up into pieces brings up a few physics questions but the device really serves the story in this movie. And the movie has a real sense of conclusion.

                I love it.

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                  #53
                  Movie 08 - Thor: The Dark World
                  Or an example of what happens when you only put as much thought into the film as casting a fantasy director to make a fantasy film and don't consider the differences in what they're trying to achieve. The second Thor film doesn't carry the best of reputations and was also the point where Natalie Portman took such a disliking to how things were she never came back adding to the body pile of romantic interests for the Avengers. Dark World does however begin the journey of isolating Thor and charting the downfall of Asgard as well as containing some references to the events of the still recent Avengers movie.



                  Does Dark World hold an important place in the canon or is it truly without real importance?

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                    #54
                    Movie 09 - Captain America: The Winter Soldier
                    I'd somehow forgotten than Phase 2 opened with sequels for the three main heroes all in a row without anything else mixed in. The second Cap film is where the Russo's came into the fold and is where we almost see a perfection of what is now referred to as the MCU tone. Winter Soldier picks up with Cap continuing to adjust to modern life whilst beginning to question the modern politics and decision making deployed in the missions he's sent on, all culminating into that reveal that also tied back to his first film.



                    Was Winter Soldier one of the most important cornerstone moments of the MCU's first 10 years?

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                      #55
                      I find myself disagreeing about Winter Soldier perfecting the MCU tone mainly because I think it was pretty much perfected with Avengers and Winter Soldier doesn't match that. I feel Winter Soldier is one of the strongest but it's a much more straight-faced film than most of the MCU films and especially the more recent ones. Even the big event of Infinity War had much more humour, silliness and fun than Winter Soldier. Most MCU films feel like they run with the tone of Avengers to a large degree with the only other straight-faced one being Civil War (and to its detriment in my opinion). For me, Winter Soldier stands quite separate to the tone of the majority of the Marvel films around it.

                      But it's a great film. And after the surprise of liking Captain America, it was an even greater surprise to see a movie that felt different and to like it even more.

                      I just wish we had really seen a Captain America 3.

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                        #56
                        I don't know whether that drier tone was an attempt to try and make Cap feel grounded and legitimate in modern setting or to underline the sense of a colder world he now occupied but considering, like you say, it's a different beast to the first film it's impressive how successfully it comes together and how well the reveal later in the film works despite the little screentime Shield has enjoyed till this point.

                        Civil War... well, we'll get to that one but the more time passes the more I find myself considering it to be one of Marvel's biggest narrative missteps within the MCU. There's quite a bit wrong with the execution and context of that film that makes it a waste of Caps closing chapter.

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                          #57
                          The Avengers
                          Captain America: The Winter Soldier
                          Avengers: Age of Ultron
                          Ant-Man
                          Captain America: Civil War
                          Avengers: Infinity War

                          All of them seem to feature conflict with the heroes amongst themselves.

                          I'm kinda looking forward to a film where they're all working together right from the start, playing off each other's strength and covering for their weaknesses.

                          One of my reasons for liking Winter Soldier was the grounded action sequences.
                          That lift bit in your gif and the fight on the ship with Batroc The Leaper (UFC Welterweight Champion, Georges St-Pierre), was a great fight.

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                            #58
                            Yep, you’re right, QC. That conflict works but we’ve seen a lot of it (Guardians too) and it might contribute to the weaker villains we see in many Marvel movies. It would be nice to see a team at their best.

                            I feel like the Russos had a very clear vision for Winter Soldier and I think a strength of the Marvel movies is that they can accommodate a more serious movie like this and also the likes of Thor Ragnarok and not totally break the universe. I feel Infinity War did a great job at pulling these separate tones together, which can’t have been easy.

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                              #59
                              Movie 10 - Guardians of the Galaxy
                              The first Guardians had a threefold problem. The first was to introduce an origin movie that was an ensemble cast, the second to do this with characters the public knew nothing of and the third was to open the accepted MCU to the cosmic scale. On top of all of this, Guardians is the first film to openly and bluntly deal with an Infinity Stone and Thanos's pursuit of the gems. It's a heady mix primed for failure but some were won over as early as first time Starlord dances beneath the logo.



                              The film is a popular one but how important is its role in the MCU?

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                                #60
                                I didn't like GotG when I first saw it.

                                I think unfamiliarity with the source material and the comedy made it feel odd.

                                The second time I watched it though, it just clicked and now I think it's one 9f the best.

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