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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

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    Genichiro is kicking my butt. I know I can learn him but the patience you need for him. Wow.

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      Originally posted by J0e Musashi View Post
      Nioh is incredible. It has the best combat out of any of this style of game. I much prefer it to Sekiro if I’m honest.
      Incredible would not be a word I would associate with it. For me it's very bland. The combat is definitely its strong point, but it's where it tries to ape Dark Souls that it completely falls flat. For me, Sekiro has the best combat I've ever played in a game. The hardest bosses are really masterpieces of game design as far as I'm concerned. Fromsoft games are full of secret sauce, which is almost entirely missing from Nioh.

      Originally posted by Brad View Post
      I’m playing nioh at the moment and enjoying it quite a bit. What parts don’t you like?
      It all feels very wooden to me. The Souls games have a very fluid and natural feel to them, even the much maligned DS2. Other issues:

      - they took away what makes the DS combat so visceral - iframes, the Ki system isn't a good substitute
      - incredibly bland story
      - bland, confusing environments
      - repetetive use of enemies
      - unnecessarily clunky co-op implementation
      - levelling makes no noticeable difference
      - obtuse and over-complex upgrade systems

      I've slagged Nioh off quite a bit here, but I will probably complete it to get my moneys worth, but I think it will be through pure stubbornness rather than thinking it's a great game. I'm also a complete Fromsoft snob. For the last three years or so I've been mostly only playing Fromsoft games. The term "AAA" means nothing to me any more, if anything, it's a massive warning sign not to waste my money or time on it. Even Destiny finally lost its grip on me after finally realising, after several years, what a monumental waste of time that kind of game is.

      Comment


        Originally posted by bcass View Post
        Incredible would not be a word I would associate with it. For me it's very bland. The combat is definitely its strong point, but it's where it tries to ape Dark Souls that it completely falls flat. For me, Sekiro has the best combat I've ever played in a game. The hardest bosses are really masterpieces of game design as far as I'm concerned. Fromsoft games are full of secret sauce, which is almost entirely missing from Nioh.


        It all feels very wooden to me. The Souls games have a very fluid and natural feel to them, even the much maligned DS2. Other issues:

        - they took away what makes the DS combat so visceral - iframes, the Ki system isn't a good substitute
        - incredibly bland story
        - bland, confusing environments
        - repetetive use of enemies
        - unnecessarily clunky co-op implementation
        - levelling makes no noticeable difference
        - obtuse and over-complex upgrade systems

        I've slagged Nioh off quite a bit here, but I will probably complete it to get my moneys worth, but I think it will be through pure stubbornness rather than thinking it's a great game. I'm also a complete Fromsoft snob. For the last three years or so I've been mostly only playing Fromsoft games. The term "AAA" means nothing to me any more, if anything, it's a massive warning sign not to waste my money or time on it. Even Destiny finally lost its grip on me after finally realising, after several years, what a monumental waste of time that kind of game is.
        I've bolded the parts I agree with. The others I don't disagree with yet, but bit early to tell.

        I also agree that the Souls games do seem to have a secret sauce that I struggle to describe. Anyway, in the absence of DS4 or a new Demon's this'll do.

        Comment


          Originally posted by bcass View Post
          Incredible would not be a word I would associate with it. For me it's very bland. The combat is definitely its strong point, but it's where it tries to ape Dark Souls that it completely falls flat. For me, Sekiro has the best combat I've ever played in a game. The hardest bosses are really masterpieces of game design as far as I'm concerned. Fromsoft games are full of secret sauce, which is almost entirely missing from Nioh.


          It all feels very wooden to me. The Souls games have a very fluid and natural feel to them, even the much maligned DS2. Other issues:

          - they took away what makes the DS combat so visceral - iframes, the Ki system isn't a good substitute
          - incredibly bland story
          - bland, confusing environments
          - repetetive use of enemies
          - unnecessarily clunky co-op implementation
          - levelling makes no noticeable difference
          - obtuse and over-complex upgrade systems

          I've slagged Nioh off quite a bit here, but I will probably complete it to get my moneys worth, but I think it will be through pure stubbornness rather than thinking it's a great game. I'm also a complete Fromsoft snob. For the last three years or so I've been mostly only playing Fromsoft games. The term "AAA" means nothing to me any more, if anything, it's a massive warning sign not to waste my money or time on it. Even Destiny finally lost its grip on me after finally realising, after several years, what a monumental waste of time that kind of game is.
          You need to complete Nioh around three times. Once you start getting + gear. The upgrade system is fantastic. You can build your own move set based upon how you like to play. No game has done combat better than Nioh.
          Last edited by J0e Musashi; 02-05-2019, 13:31.
          Kept you waiting, huh?

          Comment


            I gave up on Sekiro as it's simply too hard for me. I won't make excuses about being time-poor and not having enough time to practise - it's just too trying for my ageing synapses. I absolutely adored the world-building, though, as I do in all Souls titles. I may watch an extended playthrough and marvel at your skills.
            Last edited by Golgo; 03-05-2019, 11:20.

            Comment


              Over leveling in Sekiro would probably make Nioh's combat appear superior. I think From finely tuned bosses to the level you are most likely to be at.

              Something else I noted about Nioh - poor boss design. I don't find them hard, I find them irritating. It's just another glaring indicator of how, at a fundamental level, the Nioh devs simply don't have a firm grasp of what makes the Soulsborne games great. The Nioh bosses feel more like a battle of attrition against a very rigid algorithm, rather than a test of skill. If you're able to repeat a certain set of actions perfectly through a boss fight, then you win. It doesn't feel like the bosses are reacting to you to any great degree. It's obvious they're just going through a set of pre-programmed motions. It's one of those Fromsoft magic sauce things that no one else has been able to replicate. It probably explains why Soulsborne games are so popular on Twtich, and Nioh isn't. The Soulsborne bosses are almost infinitely varied in how the battles unfold.
              Last edited by bcass; 02-05-2019, 17:28.

              Comment


                I'm pretty sad its over so much so I went back and moped up the remaining headless, and that hidden dark souls insipred endgame boss. you can buy divine confetti from venders in end game so its probably best leaving most of the headless till now anyway.

                I'm massively tempted to go through new game plus to get more endings but my pile of games sat unopened says maybe its time to give resident evil 2 or devil my cry a play through first
                Last edited by Lebowski; 03-05-2019, 09:22.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ItsThere View Post
                  Genichiro is kicking my butt. I know I can learn him but the patience you need for him. Wow.
                  Not trying to call you out or anything on this (and it seems you're making way quicker progress than I did at the start!) but I just felt that there's something to address here; patient is very much how I'd play Dark Souls, and exactly what I needed to get out of the habit of in Sekiro. Rather than waiting for a window to get one or two guaranteed hits, the game eventually drummed into me that it's much better to go in hard - have a couple of hits blocked, deflect one back, slash back, deflect some more, maybe dodge a big hit, etc. In a lot of fights you should be killing people via posture when they've still got a load of health left. Not saying that there aren't moments where you won't run around kiting things, but if you're hitting a wall hard it's often down to a change in approach being needed.

                  Comment


                    People keep saying be aggressive with Genichiro but head is wired to mash when I go aggressive so I got destroyed. Just the way I'm wired.

                    For Genichiro, I found the best thing to do is deflect as much as possible and after certain attacks (can't remember which but you'll start to learn) get an Ichimonji Double in. Soon you'll get his posture into the red and then you're not far off from finishing a phase.

                    I played his totally defensively and it took me hours and I was sweating like Airplane when I finally got him.

                    Comment


                      Constantly attack Genichiro. It’ll goad him into his flurry attack, which you definitely want to deflect for massive posture damage. When he jumps up for his slam attack, deflect. He’ll go straight into his Kanji thrust attack, a Mikiri Counter will really damage his posture here. By this time you should be able to get in the first death blow.

                      In the second phase, it’s almost the same, but he adds the sweeping Kanji attack, so you have to jump on his head, which opens him up for a nice beating.

                      The third phase he becomes a lot more aggressive, but his posture also drains much faster. It’s basically the same strategy. When he does his forward jumping attack, dodge. Then you can either hit him with Ichimonji Double or Loaded Ace Blood and Fang. He leaves himself open for a few seconds following that attack. With the lightning attacks, don’t think that you need to run away from him. Dodge around the sword and punish him. With the arrow attack, learn to counter it, which will do insane posture damage to him.

                      I think that he is the best fight in the game. He has a limited move set, which seems overwhelming at first. Once you learn how to dance with him, it’s a whole lot of fun.
                      Last edited by J0e Musashi; 03-05-2019, 10:09.
                      Kept you waiting, huh?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by J0e Musashi View Post
                        Constantly attack Genichiro. It’ll goad him into his flurry attack, which you definitely want to deflect for massive posture damage. When he jumps up for his slam attack, deflect. He’ll go straight into his Kanji thrust attack, a Mikiri Counter will really damage his posture here. By this time you should be able to get in the first death blow.
                        I'd say your right up until the deflect of his slam as it often staggers you or pushed you back, your normally right on the edge of your posture after this the flurry so its best to doge the slam. if you a dodge he still try's to do his thrust which you can mikiri. I also found that if you stay close you can get hits in every time he try to use his arrows.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by fuse View Post
                          Not trying to call you out or anything on this (and it seems you're making way quicker progress than I did at the start!) but I just felt that there's something to address here; patient is very much how I'd play Dark Souls, and exactly what I needed to get out of the habit of in Sekiro. Rather than waiting for a window to get one or two guaranteed hits, the game eventually drummed into me that it's much better to go in hard - have a couple of hits blocked, deflect one back, slash back, deflect some more, maybe dodge a big hit, etc. In a lot of fights you should be killing people via posture when they've still got a load of health left. Not saying that there aren't moments where you won't run around kiting things, but if you're hitting a wall hard it's often down to a change in approach being needed.
                          That's the thing, I have been hyper aggressive throughout and it has worked quite well for me so far but I think that my progress has slowed because I haven't focused enough on the deflecting. I can do it a lot of the time but then, like Chopemon says, I just go a bit mental with the mashing after that. I've got a few days away now where I can't play so I will have to come back to it with a fresh new zen mindset.

                          Comment


                            You can repeatedly tap block to get parrys, I've seen it called parry dancing on youtube its not 100% guaranteed to parry everything. it dose tend to keep you from getting hit and keep your posture up until you can learn the patterns though. Don't ignore prosthetic either i really like that the firecrakers can be used to interrupt giving you time to break enemys flow giving you time to get a trouble free heal or get a few hits in.

                            One thing that i didnt realise at first as well is that your Posture is linked to health if your energy is below 75% your posture comes back slower, this is also true for enemy's, so its a lot easier to get a posture kill on an enemy when his health is at half.

                            Comment


                              Yaaaaas! Smashed him. Learned him. Took him down smoothly and skilfully. What an awesome boss fight and an awesome feeling to vanquish him!

                              Comment


                                Well played Blair. That fight should change your perception of the game, letting you destroy pretty much anybody now.
                                Kept you waiting, huh?

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