Cyberpunk 2077

[Neon Ignition]

Might be rubbish but seeing some chatter at Era for two things:

1-A poster in a well used NVidia based video for the game is bringing criticism for further negative transgender content by CDPR
2-Showfloor comments that the game is visually very strong but the gunplay is weak

[huxley]

Might be rubbish but seeing some chatter at Era for two things:

1-A poster in a well used NVidia based video for the game is bringing criticism for further negative transgender content by CDPR
2-Showfloor comments that the game is visually very strong but the gunplay is weak

I hate resetera. The little moaners on that website exist to be offended.
Is that a bit soon to be judging the gameplay as this is a long way off still

[Neon Ignition]

Era is... something of a necessary evil I feel. It gets news very quickly whereas I find gaming news sites as massively slow these days at updating with stuff. They have an awful community mindset though, there's always zero incentive to sign up.

With CDPR, the gunplay I can believe. It's still a way off release but it's been in the works a very long time so big changes now don't seem likely and almost everything they're doing here is outside their wheelhouse. Open world games rarely contain strong combat systems as well so I'm braced on that front.

[Dogg Thang]

This game should tick all of my boxes but it hasn't done it for me over the years and I think I finally see why in the new footage. And it could even be down to the name. Here's the thing - if I made a game called Western1874, it would bring with it certain expectations of an understanding of the genre rather than just being GTA with a western texture pack. Every time I see this game, something doesn't click and this has been why. I just see GTA with a Blade Runner texture pack.

Now I'm really not into people gatekeeping genres and saying that it has to be one thing. Genres evolve and change and what was cyberpunk in the 80s is not necessarily what it needs to be now. But I'm not picking up that it's anything one way or another. Even in that issue with the poster artwork, I need to hear more about what trans people have to say on it before forming my own view but one thing was very clear - the reaction of the art director (and I kind of felt bad because she was put on the spot) showed a lack of thought, especially given some of the imagery they used to advertise this game when they started. It's surface dressing.

And that won't necessarily make it bad or any less enjoyable or any less cool but something wasn't clicking for me all this time and I've realised that this is why.

[QualityChimp]

Can you just call it something else?

CyberKeanu 20XX

Deus Reeves

I know what you mean, it does look a lot like Deus Ex at times, a near future with commonplace technology, rather than "punk" guerrilla tech abuse.

[Team Andromeda]

I hate resetera.

#Respect. The most horrible gaming forum ever.

[prinnysquad]

Re, the trans advert. There’s been a clamour to criticise it entirely out of context. From what I gather, it represents something the player is fighting against.
That might be the worst defence of backfired humour possible.
Or it might be wholly correct, and be akin to a Nazi flag in Wolfenstein.
Time will tell. It may be prudent to wait and see what the context is.

I’m not 100% understanding what you mean, @Dogg Thang. I’m tired and the old brain is struggling. I’m stoked for Cyberpunk, but ONLY because of the developers. Witcher 3 is my GOAT game. But it also benefits from that fact that I like my fantasy settings. I always have done. I’d always prefer HeroQuest to Space Crusade, Warhammer to 40K, and Forest of Doom to Freeway Fighter. Cyberpunk is at a disadvantage because I’m not massively bothered about urban futuristic sci-fi settings. It’s almost like I’m thinking to myself, I’ll like this game despite the setting. Because as long as CP has the same quality of stories, characterisation and writing as W3, then I’ll be thrilled. That’s why I’m so excited.

I don’t even know what the gameplay style is. Is it GTA? Was W3 a GTA clone, albeit in a fantasy dressing? Maybe it was to some extent. I’m not sure.

[Dogg Thang]

I haven’t played Witcher and so I have no relationship with their work at all. On the trans poster, like I say, I’d need to be better informed but one thing I do know is that the company has previously made jokes at the expense of trans people and so, if they are then going to put something like that in their game, it would need to be done with a huge amount of care. But the explanation was: sexualisation is bad and that’s what we’re saying... while doing it and also in a game where one of their first big promo images was a sexualised woman looking vulnerable out in the middle of a street for some reason. I guess if you were to use your Wolfenstein example, it would be trickier if you had reason to think that maybe the devs were the actual Nazis. But in reality, it just smacks of thoughtlessness and carelessness.

It just needed thought and care and cyberpunk is a very thoughtful genre, or has been historically. Over the years, I have picked up no thought whatsoever and that’s really what kicked in with that recent footage. I saw set dressing over what feels like a vacuous core when it could be more and in a game that is literally named for a genre that offers so much more.

Just a personal view and I’m not saying it will make it a bad product at all. Just that it feels like it should excite me and yet not once has it ever managed to grab me and for ages I didn’t know why that was.

Edit: I went digging to see what trans people are saying and the one thing commented on quite a bit is that the penis seems to be on upside-down and, sure enough, it looks like it is.

[prinnysquad]

Re, Wolfenstein comparison. It’s difficult to ascertain whether or not anyone at CDPR is actually transphobic, or whether or not they just have an insensitive and ignorant sense of humour. Like the James Gunn stuff. It’s complicated. If they had used the term for the purposes of humour rather than malignant intent (although they are increasingly difficult to separate), and it backfired, then this may be their way to make amends. Thats the best case scenario. Yet, to release a screenshot that can be misconstrued is utterly stupid and hamfisted. There’s a lot of ifs and buts there. If their party line is correct - and in context they are redressing the balance and showing greater respect and sensitivity - then they’ve made an arse out of it with this single image. The world is a more complicated place these days, and many people seem to struggle with how to deal with it.

Likewise, the sexualised image stuff. If the remit of the game is that a hyper-sexualised society run by corporate greed is a bad thing that the protagonist is fighting against, then it’s impossible not to show sexualised images. But showing them out of context is going to lead people to assume the opposite. It’s a bit naive.

[prinnysquad]

What does an inverted knob denote?

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, I totally agree. I personally haven't yet seen anything that suggests any genuine ill-intent. Just thoughtlessness. Like, to advertise your game with a sexualised image that really feels like it should be taken at face value rather than commentary and then years later say 'sexualisation is bad' is messy. Maybe a better comparison than Wolfenstein would be when a comedian does a racist bit to mock racists. One smart thoughtful comedian might be able to do this but they've really taken care about it (for all the stuff that came out later, Louis CK was someone who managed to do this) whereas you take a lesser comedian and it just comes across as clumsy racism.

Like I say, I haven't seen ill intent and I actually felt bad for their art director because she was clearly put on the spot before even being aware that there was a storm coming. We'd all struggle to say the right thing in that scenario.

I guess I felt a bit of that with Bioshock Infinite. There were definitely parts of that where I was thinking, I know the intention is to comment on racism but how they're doing it actually just feels a bit racist. Like the game just wasn't quite as smart as they hoped it would be. But they tried. Whereas I don't even feel the attempt here.

Anyway, I'm realising this is totally my own baggage as someone who grew up on the genre and has been pretty immersed in it. I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade and the game could turn out to be incredible. Don't let anything I'm writing put anyone off - I was only trying to understand my own lack of excitement when, on the surface, it felt like I should be all over this.

What does an inverted knob denote?

Poor knowledge of knob anatomy? I think it was just a funny observation.

[prinnysquad]

Yeah - invoking something to mock it is notoriously a troublesome route to take. Alf Garnett is perhaps the most infamous example of becoming a poster boy for the people he was meant to mock. The risk of releasing images without context is that they are taken at face value. CDPR seem to have trouble understanding and managing this.

[wakka]

You should give Witcher 3 a try Dogg. A big reason I think a lot of people are excited about Cyberpunk 2077 has as much or more to do with the quality of that game than the actual content of the teasers and trailers so far.

It’s really good. And it’s coming to Switch so you have no excuse

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, I've heard very good things. I'll definitely keep a look out for how the Switch version turns out.

[Asura]

It just needed thought and care and cyberpunk is a very thoughtful genre, or has been historically.

Curious that it's a trans-related issue. In my experience, Cyberpunk as a genre often explores gender and body identity issues. I mean there are elements of Ghost in the Shell all about that.