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The Super Famicom is a great system for shooters - discuss

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    The Super Famicom is a great system for shooters - discuss

    The SFC gets a lot of stick when it comes to shooters, primarily due to the heavy slow down in the likes of Super R-Type and Gradius 3, but having recently got back into the Super Famicom I don't think the machine gets enough credit for its shooters. I say this as someone who had a Megadrive back in the day and regards Thunderforce IV and Musha Aleste as the two greatest 16-bit shooters ever made.

    I present the case for the Super Famicom -

    R-Type 3 - Great graphics, great soundtrack, and has the same great mechanics as the original. Minimal slow-down too.

    Macross Scramble Valkyrie - Looks and sounds great and has a unique mechanic where you can steal enemy ships to fight alongside you. Not much slowndown here either.

    Super Aleste - Yes it's not as good as Musha Aleste, but this is still a great shooter which fills the screen with carnage with very little slowdown.

    Area 88 - Fantastic arcade port from Capcom with a unique structure where you pick your next battle based upon defending your base from enemy attackers. Also, minimal slowdown.

    Axelay - Fantastic visuals and soundtrack from devs who would go on to form Treasure and write the likes of Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. It's fantastic.

    Parodius - Great port of a great arcade game. Probably the best port outside of the 32-bit ones.

    Gokujou Parodius - it's more Parodius, it's wonderful.

    Oshaberi Parodius - Even More Parodius, this time with a guy who won't shut up on the soundtrack.

    Pop n Twinbee - Wonderful cute 'em up from Konami with great music and cute graphics. Also minimal slowdown.

    Darius Twin - Pretty solid entry into the series with nice visuals.


    There are others too of course, and I do enjoy Gradius 3 despite the slowdown. Having ignored the SFC for years I see now what I was missing. This is a great system for shooters!

    #2
    Originally posted by Kotatsu Neko View Post
    Macross Scramble Valkyrie - Looks and sounds great and has a unique mechanic where you can steal enemy ships to fight alongside you. Not much slowndown here either.
    Funnily enough I thought of this the moment I saw this thread. I played this a lot back in ~2000, after I discovered emulation (naturally the game never got released here) via ZSnes.

    I'm not a shmup expert (I'm not even a shmup novice) but to my untrained eyes it was a fantastic game.

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      #3
      There's actually a patch now for gradius 3 that removes all the slowdown, it's incredible.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Kotatsu Neko View Post
        Having ignored the SFC for years I see now what I was missing. This is a great system for shooters!
        You've listed all the shoot 'em ups that I would mention as great examples of developers using the hardware really well.

        So all the negativity surrounding the SNES as a machine that supposedly "can't run shooters properly", is really shown to be incorrect and very unfair when you actually make a list of all the good examples for the machine.

        Super Aleste and Macross perfectly highlight how SNES shooters can be pacey and full of action. Macross is easily the prime example of how a talented dev managed to make the hardware sing.

        Of course, no-one would say the SNES hardware is ideal for shooters, simply because the weak CPU holds things back, but there are aspects of the hardware that allowed devs to overcome that problem to a good degree.

        It's just a shame that the SNES didn't get more shoot 'em ups. When you look at Axelay and Super Aleste, you can only wish we'd got more in the same vein.

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          #5
          The SFC does have some good shooters but nothing like the depth of choice the PCE and MD libraries contain.

          R-Type 3 - For me probably the best game on the system.

          Macross Scramble Valkyrie - Pretty good game I only discovered last year.
          Super Aleste - As a Compile fanboy it pains be to say it but this is actually pretty dull. The levels are too long and not exciting enough.

          Area 88 - Cracking port and so early in the systems lifespan too.

          Axelay - Hugely overrated IMHO. OK but still feels like a tech showcase at times.

          Parodius - Very good port of a fun game.

          Gokujou Parodius - see above.

          Oshaberi Parodius - Haven't played this one.

          Pop n Twinbee - Good fun cute 'em up.

          Darius Twin - Pretty dull at times but reasonable.

          And a few more I've played.

          BioMetal - Not a classic but pretty good with a balancing act between deploying your charge shot and shield.

          Super SWIV - looks a bit rubbish but is a better game than the Amiga version.

          Rendering Ranger - Throws a lot of stuff around and presents a stiff challenge. The of the era rendered visuals haven't aged well though.

          Raiden Trad - its Raiden and a reasonable port.

          Spriggan Powered - not great to be honest.

          Super R-Type - good sort of R-Type greatest hits but the slowdown is horrendous.

          I suppose the SFC launching years after the PCE and MD meant the popularity of shooters was already on the wane. And despite its seemingly large advantage with the amount of onscreen sprites the limitations in sprite sizes and slow, cheaper ROM used in a lot of SFC games was always going to put it at a disadvantage.

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            #6
            I'm playing through 100% Cotton at the moment, and it's pretty great too.

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              #7
              The SNES has some great shooters, but it is not a great system for shooters comparatively speaking.

              My favourites are Area 88, R-Type 3, Axelay, and, in spite of the horrendous slowdown, Gradius 3.

              The system is clearly behind its peers, the MD and PCE, and there is an argument to say it even sits last behind the Neo Geo. Whilst it may have more shooters than the NG, the shooters on the NG are so much better technically. R-Type 3 or Blazing Star? That’s a toughie!

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                #8
                Originally posted by CMcK View Post

                Axelay - Hugely overrated IMHO. OK but still feels like a tech showcase at times.
                Easily the most polished and well designed shooter for the system. The developer really went to town showing off the hardware -- and really highlighted how second-rate the graphics and music are in most SFC shooters.

                There are only a handful of shooters that can stand alongside Axelay as worth playing/owning for the machine.

                Originally posted by CMcK View Post
                I suppose the SFC launching years after the PCE and MD meant the popularity of shooters was already on the wane.
                I guess a lot of developers looked at the SFC hardware and were really put off by the weak CPU. So they focused on the PCE & Mega Drive, which are better suited to getting shooters up and running with minimal slowdown.

                Devs working for Capcom and Konami though, they were told to make shooters like Axelay, Area 88, Pop'n Twinbee etc... and they just got on with it. The results speak for themselves -- the hardware may not be perfect for shooters, but clever programming can overcome the CPU's shortcomings to a good degree. And you have nice benefits of the hardware's good points.

                The SFC would have probably ended up with far more quality shoot 'em ups if the CPU was pretty fast. That was always going to turn off lots of devs.
                Last edited by Leon Retro; 01-08-2019, 09:22.

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                  #9
                  its a pretty weak machine for shooters overall - R-Type 3 is nice and i like Axelay; be nothing really comes close to games like TFIV and Gleylancer

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                    #10
                    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again and again. Axelay isn’t a great game*. I know I’m in a minority here (other than @CMcK) but I like nothing about it and find it horrible to play.

                    SFC Parodius games though, huge amount of love for them.


                    *For me personally, before anyone gets all nerd ragey.
                    Last edited by Colin; 01-08-2019, 10:42.

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                      #11
                      My faves are Area 88 and Gradius 3. The former looks and feels so elegant and the latter is joyous even with the slowdown. I liked Axelay but I could never fully get on with the flatness of the 3D bits...and the slight dullness of the 2D bits...it was niiiiiice but not aaaaaace.

                      I only wished more SNES games looked as brill as Area 88. Time does not mar its looks.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Colin View Post
                        I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again and again. Axelay isn’t a great game*.

                        I like nothing about it and find it horrible to play.



                        You've stated the same thing loads of times, but are you sure???

                        I don't see the point in going on about how much you don't like a game that's obviously popular and held in high regard by lots of people. It would be like someone moaning about how much they "Don't like anything about Metal Slug."

                        But of course -- there are people who don't like Mario World and call it "tosh." That would be an extreme, unusual point of view though.

                        I'm all for bashing terrible games, or games that simply have severe issues. But sometimes a popular game doesn't gel with me, so I will just accept it's not for me, despite being a good game. That's the case with R-Type III -- I appreciate it's a well made game and very popular, but I don't find it very fun. I would never act like it's a bad game though.
                        Last edited by Leon Retro; 01-08-2019, 12:01.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by JazzFunk View Post
                          I liked Axelay but I could never fully get on with the flatness of the 3D bits...and the slight dullness of the 2D bits...it was niiiiiice but not aaaaaace.
                          The 3D bits look really effectively chunky 3D to my eyes. I can see that the effect isn't perfect, but you're talking about a 2D illusion, and it works pretty well overall.

                          Such a shame that Konami didn't give Nintendo Axelay for the Mini.

                          What elevates the game above a mere technical tour de force, is the beautiful design. The amount of craft put into the level design and sprites is brilliant. The vibrancy and colour is stunning.

                          Of course, there are ropy elements because of the limited hardware, but the creativity overcomes any minor shortcomings. Not forgetting the excellent music that really boosts the game's appeal.

                          I'm not saying that anyone should like Axelay as much as me, but people who act like it's a terrible game are being too severe.

                          Sounds like you would give it 7/10. A good game, but not totally excellent.


                          Originally posted by JazzFunk View Post
                          I only wished more SNES games looked as brill as Area 88. Time does not mar its looks.
                          Yeah, an equally excellent game. The developer did a brilliant job in all areas. One of few SNES shooters that really is something special. It's easily one my 'go-to' SNES games, when I want a nostalgia rush.
                          Last edited by Leon Retro; 01-08-2019, 11:58.

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                            #14
                            I'd say it has a great atmos, there is some great music and a great 'neon future city' feel. I just feel the 3D bits curve too much like unravelling kitchen foil. It's a very strange effect. I do find the battle with the giant witch's hat, I find it quite atmospheric. But some of the weapons feel dull.

                            I don't think this is top tier, it feels a bit bloated. I'd say it's better if you try to appreciate it for its graphics/sonics rather than gameplay. Not that it plays bad. It's just...as a package...it's kinda schizophrenic. The mix doesn't work as well as it did in the Salamander games. And I don't like how floaty the vert bits feel, never have, the weapons don't feel solid.

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                              #15
                              I might make it my mission to blast thru it on the SNES Mini later. Been about 1997 I last clocked it

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