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(Retro) What have you been playing this week? Vol.2

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    Originally posted by importaku View Post
    through Luigi’s mansion so far even as a launch game it’s still looking great
    I was playing it the other week -- and it's still a fantastic looking game with excellent design. Nintendo magic.

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      Given the recent $9000 auction for Kid Icarus on NES (some guy found a sealed copy in his attic), I decided to finally play it properly, having never gotten off the first level before.

      Kid Icarus (NES)

      This is without doubt one of the worst NES games I've played, and the adoration for it I blame squarely on the Yanks, who tend to fetishize anything NES related. Let's forgive the basic visuals and ear splitting music, since the hardware is old.

      The game itself is a turgid, broken, awkward, ill designed mess. Several sections made me think of the awful Action 52 on NES. It's not even mediocre, it is a horrifically bad game.

      Everything seems designed to annoy you. From being seen by the "death" enemy, who calls an army of minions, to the aubergine wizards who turn you into an aubergine, forcing you to find a hospital room. The overpriced merchants who sell useless crap - the only decent power-ups come from the rare challenge rooms. Also power ups between the scrolling levels and dungeons don't overlap. The levelling up system is frustrating (you need to grind for hearts and points). The controls are sluggish and slippery, and every platform seems coated in ice, plus the vertical stages don't scroll down meaning you screw yourself too easily. Stylistically it's a mess, with goofy enemy designs that seem like the creators were still getting to grips with the concept of what pixel art is.

      What compounds the utter travesty that is Kid Icarus, is the fact it was made alongside Metroid, using the same "engine", and Metroid is still cool. Metroid is coherent, and consistent, and logical. Metroid is fun. Kid Icarus is like a practical joke as envisioned by drug addled sadists. Everything about it is shoddy.

      I ended up hex editing the code, thinking I could make it better, but the more I fixed, the more I realised there was nothing redeemable under all the garbage.

      And just for context, I also did a movie marathon of Robocop 1, 2, and 3, so decided to play...

      RoboCop (NES)

      The 2nd and 3rd game on NES are terrible, but the firs is surprisingly great! What I find weird is how YouTubers etc. will praise Kid Icarus on NES, but crap all over RoboCop.

      The animation is excellent, especially pulling out his leg gun, and the sprites are nicely detailed. The stages are very mildly non-linear, but not maze-like. The ability to shoot only during some parts sort of follows the film, where sometimes he will kill bad guys, and other times he will be in "arrest mode". I like this because it forces you to approach areas differently. I like how instead of a timer, like most games, you have a power meter which depletes. It's basically a timer, like in SMB, but it's contextually a nice touch with regards to keeping with the film. I like the fact RoboCop himself can't jump - after all, he's a heavy machine. So one button is punch, the other shoot. The game has a methodical rhythm to it. Boss fights are interesting, like when the mayor is a hostage, you need to wait patiently for him to duck before shooting. RoboCop also has neat abilities like being able to x-ray scan walls for hidden passages.

      It's not the best film license on NES (that's Die Hard), and it's a bit too difficult for my liking, but it's fun, with neat ideas, and gives a decent enough approximation of the film given the constraints of the NES. It's a solid 7/10 type of game. I played it on an original NES, not an emulator, and while I won't bother completing it, I definitely had fun. It's also infinitely better than Kid Icarus, which as I said, is in some ways worse than Action 52.
      Last edited by Sketcz; 09-08-2019, 07:39.

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        Hooked up the PS3 to play PS2 and PS1 games last night!



        I played Gradius V (PS2), which is brilliant.
        Was chatting on Twitter with [MENTION=7037]Soundwave[/MENTION] about it and I didn't like it at first as it's so tough!
        I mean, take the first boss - he's shooting laserballs at you, the surrounding six turrets are blasting you with death hoops, then it traps you in between two lasers. THEN it starts revolving! What the hell?! How do I beat that?!



        Then I realised config B. for the options lets you aim them and I was able to take out the turrets before it started turning.

        I can now, on a lucky run, get to stage 4 without taking a hit. Still got a way to go, but what a game!

        Next up was R-Types (PS1), which is R-Type 1 and 2, but I just played 1.
        Got stuck on level 3 as it's been years since I played it. Cursing at my own stupidity, rather than the game being unfair, but really enjoyed finding those little spots where the bullets can't see you, prioritising enemies and moving the Force unit depending on where I'm attacking.

        Put R-Type Final (PS2) on and there's a bit too much going on. You're spoiled for choice and there's only 3 ships at the start!
        Love the first level's backdrop of a swirling space station city. It makes you a bit giddy as it swoops around you.
        Even though, I had it on easy setting, it's still tough!

        Talking of Easy Mode, I tried that on Viewtiful Joe and a bunch of children laughed at me until the game shushed them!

        I actually enjoyed it more than last time I tried it with it being more forgiving.
        I played that until the pad died, then called it quits, but might go back to it.

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          Originally posted by Sketcz View Post

          Kid Icarus (NES)

          . Several sections made me think of the awful Action 52 on NES. It's not even mediocre, it is a horrifically bad game.


          I remember it being a tough, punishing game, with some nice music and decent graphics.

          I know it's never been seen as a great game, but comparing it to Action 52 is definitely extreme. I'll have to give it a go and see if I also think it's really bad these days.


          Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post

          Talking of Easy Mode, I tried that on Viewtiful Joe and a bunch of children laughed at me until the game shushed them!

          I actually enjoyed it more than last time I tried it with it being more forgiving.
          I played that until the pad died, then called it quits, but might go back to it.
          I remember thinking Viewtiful was a tough game before I got to grips with it. You really need to focus. Sounds like you managed to get some fun out of it, so good luck with the rest. You might end up really liking it.
          Last edited by Leon Retro; 09-08-2019, 20:17.

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            Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
            I remember it being a tough, punishing game, with some nice music and decent graphics.

            I know it's never been seen as a great game, but comparing it to Action 52 is definitely extreme. I'll have to give it a go and see if I also think it's really bad these days.
            The music bleeds my ears. The bit where the death enemy spots you, gah! So annoying. I assumed Yanks liked it because there's one bit which sounds like... I dunno, some American folk song or something.

            Check out the graphics in the first "dungeon", with colour clashing floor tiles, and the goofy looking statue heads in the side-scrolling levels after this, and what looks like some sort of yeti man? And in the special rooms you get attacked by giant noses. Literally big fat noses. WTF? The enemies are all random goofy things with no stylistic coherence or uniformity to them. Action 52 sucked because it was just random nonsensical crap dropped together. Which is how I felt with Kid Icarus.

            Like, there's these statues in the dungeons, and the only way to break them is to get hammers, which you can either sometimes (rarely) buy, or you need to find a harp which is also super rare, which for a time turns all monsters into hammers, and you can then use these hammers on the statues, which then have them help you with the bosses, unless you've been touched by an eggplant, whereupon my statue touched number went to zero, so I had to hex edit the number higher again, because I couldn't fight the boss because my body was literally a ****ing eggplant.

            This is the actual design. Like a bad cheese induced nightmare.

            If you can suffer through the first dungeon report back on what you enjoyed at each part.
            Last edited by Sketcz; 09-08-2019, 20:55.

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              Originally posted by Sketcz View Post

              Check out the graphics in the first "dungeon", with colour clashing floor tiles, and the goofy looking statue heads in the side-scrolling levels after this, and what looks like some sort of yeti man? And in the special rooms you get attacked by giant noses. Literally big fat noses. WTF?
              Sounds similar to your typical ZX Spectrum platformer.


              Originally posted by Sketcz View Post
              If you can suffer through the first dungeon report back on what you enjoyed at each part.
              You've really put me off playing it, but I might give it a go sometime.
              Last edited by Leon Retro; 09-08-2019, 23:04.

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                Urgh.
                Downloaded Gradius Collection for the PSP, because I'd read you can transfer it from PS3, but it turns out that the EU version can't be transferred.

                Gutted!

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                  Kid Icarus feels like one of those games you had to be there to enjoy. I never owned it as a kid and can never get into it whenever I try it.

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                    Definitely a few NES games in that category.
                    I think Turtles is another. I love that game but totally understand people's dislike for it.

                    The other thing about playing it as a kid is that it was your only game for some time so you had no option but sit and dig down into it and all it's nuances. Once you're versed in it, you accept it.

                    I was thinking recently that Arino from Games Centre CX is doomed on a number of games. He only gets like 12 hours to play them and some games takes an age to learn. Ninja Gaiden for example has a 3 tier last boss which kicks you back to the beginning of the stage if you die. That in itself is weeks of learning.

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                      Turtles is another one for sure.

                      I'm always surpised Arino does as well as he does considering the time limit.

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                        Off & on camera Arino gets a lot of help but even so he still has a lot of skill to finish some of the games he does as some are brutally hard. Turtles definitely deserves the hate it's a garbage game i absolutely hate it i had the misfortune to have that crap as my pack in title when i had my nes bought for me. I literally only had 5 nes game in my collection so it got played, i wanted to see the end of it the controls are slow clunky the level layouts are dull as hell and the last boss fight with shredder is totally unfair if that damn stupid raygun hits you even once you instantly revert to a tiny turtle and it's lose a life so you have to slog your way through a tedious level to get back to him and the last level is pretty hard.

                        Kid icarus is brutally hard but never unfair if you do the prepwork hell even been turned into an eggplant can be undone if you know where to go, personally i like the game it's fun & quirky. Has a lot of secrets too.

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                          Ah, so even back in the day you disliked it?
                          Were you a turtles fan?

                          Part of the pull for me was being big into turtles.

                          Interesting you say Shredder is unfair, I was actually thinking about a thread titled hard games was easy last bosses.

                          Shredder is ridiculously easy to beat as long as you have Donatello or a sub weapon. You can literally stand on the lower platform on the right and throw your sub weapon or Bo and he can’t get near you.

                          If it makes you feel any better (probably not) Shredder takes half your health if he touches you, so in the fight the most you can take is 1 touch before it’s death anyway.

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                            Originally posted by Cepp
                            Kid Icarus feels like one of those games you had to be there to enjoy. I never owned it as a kid and can never get into it whenever I try it.
                            Originally posted by Goemon View Post
                            Definitely a few NES games in that category.
                            I think Turtles is another. I love that game but totally understand people's dislike for it.
                            This is a good summary. You had to be there for a lot of titles. Turtles on NES is one of my all-time favourite NES games, even though I realise it's probably not that great. Floaty controls, extreme difficulty, nearly impossible jumps in places, dodgy detection, etc. But I loved the cartoon, and so loved playing this. And, as pointed out, when you play something a lot you get it memorised. People complain the underwater level is hard, but having the entire thing memorised I find it not only easy but one of my favourite levels. I regularly go back to that level and still find it easy, and fun. The turtle sprite is so small and dinky.

                            Part of the fun was that myself and two friends all had the game, and we'd talk about completing levels in school, and giving each other tips etc. Playing it now triggers pleasurable memories of the past.

                            I only discovered Kid Icarus around 2006 through emulation.

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                              Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
                              Urgh.
                              Downloaded Gradius Collection for the PSP, because I'd read you can transfer it from PS3, but it turns out that the EU version can't be transferred.

                              Gutted!
                              Urgh, indeed... I was about to buy it to play it on my PS Vita. Thanks for posting this issue, though, you've saved me from wasting £8.99.

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                                Introduced the bairns to some MD goodness. Tatsujin and Micro Machines. We had a great laugh with Micro Machines despite it probably looking like cave paintings to their young eyes!

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