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Europe IV: The Final Hour

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    Originally posted by S3M View Post
    At this rate we seem to be gearing up for UK Civil War 2, as the country seems to be getting more and more divided.
    So at least in the public eye Johnson’s Trumpian divide-and-conquer strategy is working, if not in The Commons. Large swathes of the general public are so blind as to not see their role as pawns in the high-stakes game Boris and his cohorts are playing.

    Whatever the outcome of Brexit, it will be nothing compared to the divisions in this country caused by its existence.

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      Originally posted by S3M View Post
      At this rate we seem to be gearing up for UK Civil War 2, as the country seems to be getting more and more divided.
      I wouldn't worry we would not be able to organise one without 169 committees and a 100 year back stop on the subject.

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        Yeah, I think we're a long way off a civil war. That would require at least two large enough sides to battle and these just don't exist unless by 'civil war' we're talking a drunken scuffle in an Aldi car park. The sides are so split right now that, when you actually get to the angry militant percentage, you'd be looking at a handful of people.

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          Although on a serious note. I actually do think parliament should now be dissolved with the military taking over the governance of the country, until a new system of hiring politicians based on merit and skill is put into place.

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            Now this is something I see as a more real problem than a civil war. Of course I would agree that there has been ridiculous mucking about with the political system and it could do with a big overhaul (most political systems could do with this). But I think something nefarious is being achieved here and you can trace it back to things that happened in the US with people like Steve Bannon and with things like Russia's interference and it is playing out with Brexit. One of the big things sold to Brexiteers was a mistrust of Europe and so a vague (and incorrect) push for sovereignty. In essence, an attempt to undermine and destabilise the EU. Now that the vote set the UK down that path, that narrative has been essentially forgotten because it has served its purpose and it's now been replaced with what feels like a very successful attempt to undermine and destabilise the UK itself. The very people pushing for sovereignty, for self-determination and the sanctity of UK processes without interference are now selling a narrative that those very processes are broken, that actually the sovereignty they wanted is rotten. So what was really being campaigned for?

            The UK is currently being played, as far as I can see. Boris is totally complicit in the whole thing. I don't mean there is some grand conspiracy. Just that a lot of interests are being served by breaking the UK's own systems and selling mistrust in all forms of government. Because in those situations, it means power gets handed over. I wouldn't be so quick to wish for military rule here.

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              I said at the time this Brexit situation was sedition and absolutely stank of something bigger being put into place. Well It worked, and all the little rats are free to go about their business as usual.

              ALL politicians need to go wholesale, no exceptions in this and everyone should be made an example with long prison sentences and a lifetime ban from politics.

              Then a new system in place.

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                If Brexit is overturned etc or however it comes to an end it'll end only one way. A small portion of the public will organise protests in the streets for a few weeks banging on about 'democracy' and that'll largely be it, I'm actually doubtful there'd be that much rage about it from most - it's more the vacuum of political interest that would follow that worries MP's. Other than economy damage there's pretty much zero difference in outcome between whether we remain or leave now.

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                  Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                  If Brexit is overturned etc or however it comes to an end it'll end only one way. A small portion of the public will organise protests in the streets for a few weeks banging on about 'democracy' and that'll largely be it, I'm actually doubtful there'd be that much rage about it from most - it's more the vacuum of political interest that would follow that worries MP's. Other than economy damage there's pretty much zero difference in outcome between whether we remain or leave now.
                  What!?

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                    I just think that any notion of it resolving by hitting a deadline is gone now. For Leavers, if they don't see the UK leave then we'll be in for years of Rightwing and Alt-Right Wing movements severely steering the UK in the wrong direction in an extreme effort to gain a third referendum or mandate Brexit. Alternatively if we do end up leaving we'll see the brief scent of hope Remainers now have and the inability to get any trade deals used for years of Leftwing and Alt-Left Wing movements severely steering the UK in the wrong direction in an alternate extreme effort to gain a third referendum or mandate to rejoin the EU.

                    There's no 'getting it done' anymore and either camp will continue this fight and narrative for decades.

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                      Interest rates are apparantly going to be cut to make up for any lack of spending the public have.

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                        Alt Left Wing... yes, about as real and organised as leprechauns. Even injecting that term into it is an attempt at false equivalency. These things are not equal and we’re far from a mid point. This isn’t an ‘either camp’ situation. It never was.

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                          Certainly not equal, just not sure of a better term for those who are more heavily in on the leftwing side of their politics.

                          As much as many disagreed with the outcome I think there was a point where if we'd have left in a relatively straightforward manner whereby we left on the original deadline with a deal that Parliament merely accepted even if it wasn't ideal then most of the public opposition would have shrugged Brexit off as not what they wanted but accepting that it was happening. Now though, it's been allowed to gestate into fight and the Tories have single handedly fuelled that with their approach. For all their talk about the Brexit Party that party doesn't actually have that much of a voice outside of some jibes by Farage, they mostly ride the benefits of the Conservatives ineffectiveness. The Tories though, they're taking Brexit to Trumpesque levels.

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                            Hmm... okay I get what you’re saying but I’d be very suspect of making up terms like that given that an Alt Right has a very visible and vocal presence, has clear figureheads and its influence can be seen and documented in recent and current US and EU politics whereas the same can’t be said for a left equivalent. It equates a left with something it’s simply not. At least not yet. It creates a sense that these are two ends of something and they just aren’t.

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                              I saw someone being called a left wing nazi on Twitter yesterday :S

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                                Completely, the two aren't equals in any way in real terms. They really should come up with a well suited term for those who do more fully embody left wing values to a very full extent. It's a shame there's never much ground made up on central territory as that's likely where most people actually reside (I suppose it sounds less enticing on the campaign trail though).

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