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Europe IV: The Final Hour

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    Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    No, they voted against a very specific type of voting reform. Applying that now to any electoral reform is like the anti-Brexit.
    It was a stepping stone to further voting reform and the politicians saw it as indication that reform wasn't wanted.

    The single transferable vote, whilst not ideal, is still far better than first past the post, and the situation listed above would be mitigated by it as votes would be transfered to a second (or third or fourth etc) preference in the event first choice was eliminated. You wouldn't need to vote tactically because it's implicit in the system.

    Don't hold your breath for PR in the UK because no party in power with a majority will ever want it - people had the chance to change the system and chose not to by a large margin.
    Last edited by MartyG; 13-11-2019, 13:33.

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      Labour says they will only allow a second Scottish independence referendum if the SNP win a Holyrood majority in 2021 which rules out the 2020 claims the Tories keep banging on about. The various wordings make 2022-2025 the likely window depending on events.

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        Corbyn won't have much choice if he needs SNP to prop up a minority Labour government.

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          Unite's McCluskey has told Corbyn to dial back on free movement talk worried it will alienate northern voters keen to see limits in place.



          He also wants too much talk surrounding a second referendum to be supressed to avoid putting off voters too

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            Originally posted by Asura View Post
            When I was in the far-east, I once had an unruly student who didn't want to learn English. Most of the usual methods you can employ to motivate a disruptive student didn't work, and the kid was really quite intelligent, so I used the method that was used by my teachers in the 90s to get me to learn RE; namely that if I wanted to, I could not really care about the material, but I should memorise it and parrot it in the exam because it's a GCSE irrespective of topic, and qualifications would help me get a college placement, unit placement and even job, in the future. Otherwise I might end up working in a menial job at McDonald's my whole life.

            When I said this to that student, way back in 2007, I really meant it, too. I mean I was never the sort of person who was a prick to minimum wage workers (I've always hated those people) but at the same time, I always knew that I didn't want to end up doing that.

            After the class, the Japanese teacher in the group pulled me aside, and said that they didn't understand what I was trying to tell the student. This led to a weird conversation where, eventually, we worked out that the crux of their misunderstanding was when I was saying "you might end up working at McDonald's", they were thinking "well what's so bad about that?"
            It seems to be the norm for us to be thinking like that - back in primary school, one of the teachers used to tell us "if you don't do the work, you'll be working in a factory, putting cherries on top of the buns". I wish I was, I reckon I'd have enjoyed being a baker more than an office drone. I like buns. Or you get parents talking their kids out of what they consider to be blue-collar work, even if the jobs might ultimately pay more (things like mechanics or plumbers).

            Even if they look at intelligence as a simple black-and-white thing which it really isn't, jobs need a variety of skills. If I worked at McDonald's, there's no way I'd be able to keep a cool enough head to get through the multi-tasking required when dealing with orders in a busy period and still not lose my rag with the inevitable unpleasant customers. I'd be sacked in a week, I bet!

            In more election news, I've handled some of the deposits and while I can't go into any detail I will say this - you can pay by a variety of methods and it never fails to surprise me who pays in (untraceable) cash.

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              Aren’t the McDonald’s workers asking for £15 an hour though? Because that’s more than a nurse gets I think?

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                Originally posted by Brad View Post
                Aren’t the McDonald’s workers asking for £15 an hour though? Because that’s more than a nurse gets I think?
                This “more than nurses get” thing should only be used to pay nurses more, not pay anyone else less.

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                  Too fruncking right, [MENTION=3144]Dogg Thang[/MENTION].

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                    It reminds me of the time when the government were describing public sector pensions as "gold plated" and using the fact that most people have an awful/no pension scheme as justification to cut them down. Speaking as somebody who had one of those pensions, it was about as gold plated as a wristwatch in a penny pusher. My plan for retirement was to hopefully just about get by, my new plan is to make sure I'm dead before I hit it.

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                      Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                      This “more than nurses get” thing should only be used to pay nurses more, not pay anyone else less.
                      So pay everyone more?

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                        If anyone in the food serving industry is to get a pay rise first it should be at places that support tipping so that practice can be fully abolished. For those McD's they should probably be looking to find a job elsewhere rather than clinging on to better work conditions, it's been clear for a while now that McDonald's is keen on phasing out its workforce in favour of as much automation as possible.

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                          Originally posted by Brad View Post
                          So pay everyone more?
                          Definitely not! Everyone should be propped up by benefits and food banks, instead of paid enough to exist.

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                            The Conservatives have pledged to cut overall migration but won't commit to a specific target making it a completely useless pledge.



                            Tusk pleads to those in favour of Remain to not lose faith that Brexit can be reversed, his comments even hinting that the EU is still willing to drag Brexit out beyond the current January deadline if there's a way of avoiding a crash out of the UK.

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                              Originally posted by Brad View Post
                              So pay everyone more?
                              Everyone who is not earning enough to really get by at a minimum acceptable level, yes. We could start with that.

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                                Yep I’m up for that. Is £15 an hour considered what the minimum wage should be?

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