Originally posted by Superman Falls
View Post
-
That's exactly it, which is why my patience for attempts to 'both sides' the argument at this stage is at zero. In all honesty, I think attempts to be reasonable over that which actually became blindingly obvious very early on to anyone with rational thought is a contributing factor in how we got here. It's like having a toddler throwing a tantrum because her parents won't let her pee on a plug socket and the parents saying "well, hear her out, it's important we listen to her concerns". At some point (and that point was a long, long time ago), you have to call it out for exactly what it is. -
WHAT THE ****?!Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
That's TERRIFYING.
It's frustrating too, because there's the grain of a good idea buried in that. From reading about these boards, they display useful information - like telling students about the signs of meningitis, that kind of thing. I can see how having a slide which says who the current government is, where they're from and their overall aims would be a good thing; like it's important for kids to be informed - but from an impartial perspective. That stuff looks like party propaganda.Comment
-
Yep, but they're too open to abuse unless regulated so incredibly tightly. See the now-defunct Channel One News in the US.Originally posted by Asura View PostComment
-
The way I see it is Boris has to be in trouble at some point. The big mistake in all this is that it's been distilled too heavily into Leave and Remain as both sides dig their heels in at one another. There never were two sides to the argument, there were about twenty because people voted for one of two options but for a raft of different reasons. Now you will even have Remain voters happy to see Leave happen under a misinformed No Deal promise simply because they're sick of hearing about it. It's a complex issue that's become even more complex and the danger for Johnson is that short term goals will reap severe consequences for him in the long term by over simplifying it.
I still - still - don't believe Johnson is pro-Leave. I completely buy that he chose to campaign for Leave because he assumed it would fail and he could leverage the act of being a figurehead into a PM attempt or similar at a later date. He could make whatever claims he wanted because he knew the government had made the gross mistake of not contingency planning so had to factual response to anything he claimed and with the vote lost he'd never be asked to deliver on anything. He no doubt promised all sorts to Cummings too for his help, effectively making a deal with the devil. But then - Leave won. That'll be the point where Johnson suddenly vanished as is clearly his normal response, to dodge the difficult.
He then popped up again for the leadership contest but Gove stabbed him in the back and Johnson has since spent the last few years positioning himself for another attempt at the top spot. He's simply stood as the anti-May which works in terms of getting the job but carrying it out is a different matter, he's also being badly guided by a now rewarded Cummings who is no doubt being wrongly credited with being the reason Leave won. Cummings didn't win the Referendum, he was a small cog and this time his antics have consequences in the short term as they're now finding out.
So now we have Johnson who still doesn't actually care one bit really about Brexit, it's been abundantly clear from the outset that he has only one concern and that is keeping the position he's found himself in which means winning a General Election and is why the party has been in campaign mode the entire time. His panic now will be whether the opposition can pen him in long enough to continue the chain of failures for him long enough that voter support is affected.
Assuming he wins a majority and Brexit happens though he will be indebted to the worst parts of the party and will have to survive as the UK falls apart, slips into a Tory created recession and stalls in attempts to agree key trade deals because he's destroyed the relationship with Europe and may well not be able to bank on the golden egg of America because the House won't pass a trade deal and his ally Trump may not even be around anymore to lobby for one. Assuming Brexit doesn't happen on 31 October (another failure rivals will hang over his head in a campaign) and ends up happening on 31 January instead, I struggle to see how the party expects to weather the fallout.Comment
-
Yeah, I don't know if he assumed it would fail but I think you're absolutely right that this is a stance of convenience. He is on record as being a Remainer up to a certain point.Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
Which is why it's kind of funny that Corbyn is pro-Leave and yet I think it would have given him a far stronger position if he became a figurehead for Brexit opposition because then you would have two polar opposite sides, neither one believing the stance they are pushing for.Comment
-
Sturgeon and SNP formally announce they would support Corbyn as caretaker PMComment
-
Johnson has been referred to the Police Watchdog over potential misconduct whilst London MayorComment
-
This is not to be considered in any way an endorsement for BoJo, but part of me wonders... When this kind of thing happens, does the person who reported it get pulled up for something akin to obstruction of justice? I mean if you believe someone committed a crime, is it not an offence to hold on to that information just in case there's a time in the future which could be perfect to reveal it for political purposes?Originally posted by Superman Falls View PostComment
-
Labour accuses Johnson of stoking false fears of riots etc in an effect to use emergency powers and avoid extending A50Comment
-
May’s reign as worst pm ever didn’t last long. Boris will be remembered for being an utter **** and nothing more. What absolute scum the man is. He doesn’t give a toss about this country - and by that I mean all of us, England, Ireland (northern and southern) Scotland and Wales - and should be tried for treason.Comment
-
No.10 has denied one of two claims that Johnson grabbed a female journalist's thigh in 1999.
Whilst he also continues to work against the law requiring him to extend A50
And may get the vote of no confidence he seems to be pursuing, this week.Comment
-
I'm not sure how Johnson has committed treason. Let's not conflate personal opinion on Brexit with criminality.Originally posted by Brad View Post
I don't like Johnson, I don't like Brexit, and I think he's about as trustworthy as the combination of ten lots of used car salesmen, but calling upholding a referendum result (to Leave the EU) treason (the betrayal of one's country) is a bit of stretch by any standard.
As to how Johnson will be remembered, that's yet to be decided and if Corbyn seizes power through a vote of no confidence this week and he's the one to block Brexit, the Tories will be having a party.Comment
-
Tories say they will still leave under No Deal on 31 October rather than extend A50 and think they've found a loophole. Experts keep trying but can't find any that would actually succeed though.
Once again - it feels like an empty threat designed to scare opposition into calling the vote of no confidence he cravesComment
-
At this rate we seem to be gearing up for UK Civil War 2, as the country seems to be getting more and more divided.
The real trouble with it all is that there was no majority for anything it was a 48/51 spilt that was too close to call on those that voted. On top of that that if you look at the how it all really adds up it was roughly a 4 ways split, one quarter of the country voted to leave (Many of whom just wanted to give Cameron a bloody nose), a slightly smaller quarter voted to stay, another quarter couldn't be arsed to vote and another quarter, under 18s, non UK nationals in the UK and UK nationals abroad, couldn't vote. Just looking at the maths, things don't look good for the future of the country. Not to mention the fact Northern Ireland and Scotland are being pulled out of the EU without their consent. More and more I can see something really bad happening.
Had someone joke about Johnson in the shopping queue the other day, which all gave us a good laugh, no one clearly liked him.Last edited by S3M; 30-09-2019, 22:28.Comment
-
In the coming 24hrs Johnson will reveal his plans for a revised Withdrawal Agreement which revolves mostly around - border checks in Ireland. The concept has already been dismissed though marking yet another continuation of Johnsons flawless record of failure so far. He's currently skating around the issue so far saying the leaked plans aren't accurate to the final ones they will propose but has already suggested himself that he is likely to cave in and support Northern Ireland being singled out for alignment with the EU on sanity and phytosanity rules.Comment
Comment