Europe IV: The Final Hour

[Asura]

The whole rules around the press need changing. The concept of freedom of the press is a joke, papers should be free to post stories and investigation exclusives etc without fear but should be required to do so with a sense of objectivity and proven fact checking. The second they're allowed to push their opinion as fact they're no longer the press and instead are propaganda. No acting politician should be allowed a column either.

Yeah... It's a weird journey I've been on. In 2006, I was a fierce defender of the freedom of the press; suggestions of the government having any control over it used to really anger me. Ditto for the idea of forcing people to vote (like, people are allowed to spoil ballots, but they have to actually either go out and vote or make a postal vote; they can't just do nothing).

I used to feel that these two things were a slippery slope, a tool for dictatorships. Now I see what's going on in the US and other parts of the world and I believe, however well-meaning I was, that I was wrong.

[Dogg Thang]

It may not even be that you were wrong on a conceptual level. The problem is that freedom of the press in real terms means freedom to be bought and controlled and influenced without any responsibility to the people. A true free press wouldn't have those influences but can such a thing even exist? So there needs to be rules and standards to protect people and a democracy because, really, there isn't ever a free press.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/nov/05/general-election-news-latest-corbyn-brexit-speech-gove-says-labours-claim-uk-us-trade-deal-cost-cost-nhs-500m-per-week-nonsense-live-news

Johnson allows the televising of himself as he lies to his own cabinet

[Neon Ignition]

Following the live updates on the Lib Dem GE launch event and this might be where Labour starts to claw some votes back, Swinson's already into the Q&A section and so far has said absolutely nothing of substance.

[MartyG]

The whole rules around the press need changing. The concept of freedom of the press is a joke, papers should be free to post stories and investigation exclusives etc without fear but should be required to do so with a sense of objectivity and proven fact checking. The second they're allowed to push their opinion as fact they're no longer the press and instead are propaganda. No acting politician should be allowed a column either.

There's nothing wrong with the media having an opinion, so long as they are opinion pieces and clearly labled as such.

It's when these opinion pieces are presented as news that it becomes an issue.

[Neon Ignition]

Absolutely, I know the BBC gets a drumming for political leaning but really the target aims for objectivity should be across the board.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/nov/05/general-election-news-latest-corbyn-brexit-speech-gove-says-labours-claim-uk-us-trade-deal-cost-cost-nhs-500m-per-week-nonsense-live-news

Swinson once again rules out working with Corbyn in a hung parliament which again stupidly confirms the Lib Dems would rather allow a Tory Hard Brexit/No Deal than get off their high horse.

Honestly, they could be a key factor in achieving a second chance for Remain but really the Lib Dem stance simply seems to be to exist to kill off any chance of Remain

[MartyG]

Corbyn doesn't want to remain, even the second referendum stuff is wishy washy (he never gives a straight answer on this and won't even confirm if he'd compaign for remain if there was a second referendum). He can't be on both sides of the fence because there isn't a middle ground with Brexi - there is no good Brexit and the one he's proposing is ridiculous as it's essentially remain without voting rights which won't please either side.

The only way to guarantee remain is for everyone to vote LibDem and have a LibDem government.

[QualityChimp]

It's nuts to think we have a string of Remain politicians saying they'll deliver Brexit (Cameron, May, Johnson), whilst Corbyn wants to leave but can't really say that.

Lib Dems always feel like a wasted vote and they still feel like ToryLite, especially with the number of Tories who defected, many without a stellar voting record for things like disability allowances etc.

[MartyG]

Latest polling

YouGov from 4th Oct, Tories drop back one point to 38 from their last poll on 1st Nov. Delta from 2nd Nov, Tories gain 3 points from their last poll on 21st Oct.



In the combined polls, Tories lead by 12 points, which gives a predicted result of a Conservative majority of 122

[QualityChimp]

[Neon Ignition]

All the more depressing that it'd be more optimistic to expect around 3% to vote tactically


Flakey as the maths may be everything rests on Labour denting the Tory vote

[MartyG]

There is a major flaw in that chart. Labour are not pro-remain.

[QualityChimp]

Who knows what they are at the moment?!

[Brad]

They are pro-anti-tory

[Dogg Thang]

I guess they are at least pushing for some sort of clarifying referendum, which is really the only chance remain has.