Anti-Islam Dutch MP banned from UK

[winky]

Muslims don't like anyone saying anything against Islam. If you have any negative opinions regarding Islam - it's just not acceptable.

This is not limited to Islam but all religion. Those of faith seem to believe that their religion should hold a special status which is free from criticism and satire.

[NekoFever]

What I used to find funny, but now quite sad is that people can't tell the difference between culture and religion. Who's to say that you can't have a 100% cultural European background and yet still have an 'eastern' religion? (even though all current major religions i know of originated from the east)

Very true. Islam, Christianity and Judaism all originated from the same part of the world.

The difference is that Christianity and Judaism have been prominent in the West for a couple of thousand years, to the point that those religions and 'Western culture' have informed each other. Islam has done the same thing in the Arab world, and it's created a bit of a culture clash as the cultures have come into greater contact with each other in the last century or so.

People need to separate what is cultural and what is religious and realise that protection of their religious rights doesn't apply to their culture. It's like people moaning that it's limiting their ability to practise their religion when they can't wear a headscarf or cross pendant at work/school: neither of those are mandatory parts of their religious observance in the way that, say, a turban is for a Sikh, and so they have no guaranteed right to wear them if they contravene the rules.

[Kit]

This is not specific to Islam, its human nature. No one likes anyone saying anything against their beliefs, country etc.

The repercussions of being negative towards Islam are a bit harsher than normal though wouldn?t you agree? I mean, isn?t this the third or fourth MP to criticise Muslims and be threatened with death.

What I used to find funny, but now quite sad is that people can't tell the difference between culture and religion.

Culture comprises of religion. Not to be patronising, but look it up.

People need to separate what is cultural and what is religious and realise that protection of their religious rights doesn't apply to their culture. It's like people moaning that it's limiting their ability to practise their religion when they can't wear a headscarf or cross pendant at work/school: neither of those are mandatory parts of their religious observance in the way that, say, a turban is for a Sikh, and so they have no guaranteed right to wear them if they contravene the rules.

QFT.

[Ady]

I actually think the government is right in this regard. This BBC article should put it all into perspective:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7886237.stm

If the likes of Louis Farrakhan can be denied entry (and rightly so), then the same should also ring true for this guy, particularly as they are essentially flipsides of the same coin.

[Robster]

The repercussions of being negative towards Islam are a bit harsher than normal though wouldn?t you agree? I mean, isn?t this the third or fourth MP to criticise Muslims and be threatened with death.

I dont agree, the reason being what alot of people seem to forget here is that these death threats are used by extremists - in other words terrorists -who hijack islam in order to do what they want.

Its a small minority and the not the general muslim opinion to bomb and kill anyone who is not a muslim or criticise's Islam.

[Dogg Thang]

You're right, Geo-V6, that it is a tiny minority and they're extremists. But then you're denying their right to their religion. They don't "hijack" Islam. It is their religion. And, in many cases, it informs their views and greatly influence their actions.

And, while there are extremists in all religions and plenty of non-religious extremists, it's the Islam extremists who currently have the world scared. It's that simple. We'll take the piss out of Christianity left, right and centre and won't have death threats from Bishops. Okay so we rarely mock the Jews outside of a few circumcision jokes but, jeez, haven't they had a hard enough time as it is - we don't fear them.

But Islam? No. We respect Islam. And by respect, I mean fear of course. People don't get on television and take the piss out of Islam. There won't be an Islamic Father Ted any time soon. And it's because we fear Islam.

And those extremist Muslims are why we fear Islam. And they are Muslims. They are following what they see written in their texts. Sure, the Old Testament has plenty of calls to harm people but the difference is that there aren't people acting on them. There were, not even so long ago in history and you could make a case back then that they were more dangerous. But not now.

There are people of all religions just going about their lives. But another thing that strikes me about Islam, and I'm only going from perception here, is that the non-extremist Muslims are still a hell of a lot more "extreme" than non-extremist Christians or Jews. They are simply more dedicated to their religion. It seems to mean more to them. And, while in a way I respect that, it also leads to many being quicker to take offense. See, we don't even risk offending the non-extremist Muslims, do we? But it's open season on anyone else.

[randombs]

Islam will only be truly acculturated to our way of life when you could expect a Bradford audience to roll in the aisles at Monty Python's Life of Mohammed.

It's not a tiny minority, though, it really isn't. As Dogg Thang said above, more than a few Muslims will harbour some kind of 'extremist' views, although I feel it's more them thinking they have a responsibility towards Muslims no matter what their faults but you'll usually only discover these if you're a Muslim yourself because they won't go around telling just anyone.

Check out some Muslim standup, it's almost painful watching these guys coming out with (imo anyway, but it's not their fault) crap material that tries to keep the audience happy while also keeping the death threats at bay. Imagine if they were given free reign, I think they'd be pretty good.

The guys on Mock The Week don't seem to hold back, though, and it's actually refreshing hearing them come out with some of the stuff they do. Better out than in, as they say

But Islam? No. We respect Islam. And by respect, I mean fear of course.

QFT

[KIT786]

Culture comprises of religion. Not to be patronising, but look it up.

Yeah your right, but what i'm trying to say is that just because something is part of your culture it doesn't automatically make it part of your religion.

Also you can't just take a quote from the Quran and use it standalone, what is all comes down is to context and the background behind the quote, which is something that extremist don't understand. Yes it is written that you must kill the infidels, but when you look into the background of the quote its taking about when you are at war.

It also says he who kills an innocent person (which is what terrorist do), will be punished for eternity. The same for suicide and self-harm (if you do it with a stable mind). So its hard to say that these extremists really are muslims, and they know the less about the religion they stand and fight for.

[Dogg Thang]

But some would argue that by being part of certain countries or supporting them, their victims aren't innocent. It's like the ol' 'thou shalt not kill' thing, which some Christians will say means just don't murder, but killing as in execution, war or anything you can class as legal or justified is fine.

Me, I say don't kill anyone but I'm not basing my life on sacred texts that do actually tell some people to kill other people.

[Robster]

You're right, Geo-V6, that it is a tiny minority and they're extremists. But then you're denying their right to their religion. They don't "hijack" Islam. It is their religion. And, in many cases, it informs their views and greatly influence their actions.

Extremism is based on extremist clerics interpetation on a certain part of the Khoran. They then preach this to other's to try and convert them.

The same part of the Khoran is interpeted in a different & peacefull way by the general muslim population.

This is what I mean by hijack Islam.

Im not denying anyone their religion as you put it.

[RetroRevival]

My biological sperm doner (it's as close as I will ever come to calling him my father) is Muslim. If he had stayed around when I was born I would have been following the Islamic faith. As it turns out, I have grown into someone who does not believe in any God or any Higher Being making me I suppose, Atheist.

Anyway, not believing doesnt mean that I am not intersted in religion, in fact as I am getting older (I'm 32 now) I am wanting to learn more about each religion, not because I want to adopt one of them, but I am a strong believer that knowledge is power and the more I learn the more I understand, making dinner party conversations between the men of the ensemble more political rather than who Newcastle United should appoint as manager. It makes the evening more 'interesting' to say the least.

I have all the time in the world for having conversations about religion and how certain aspects of what is in effect either simply written or spoken words can be totally justified in todays society. I have no time for preachers, or those annoying cnuts who try and force religion down your throat, each one claiming their sect is the 'one' to be in. I have even less time for religious persons who attempt to have a conversation with me about 'their' religion, when in fact I know more than they do, or even worse, when you stump them with a question they simply cannot answer due to lack of knowledge on their behalf. (I was entertained by the local Jehova's Whitness recruiters the other day after I gave them 10 minutes of my time and spent 8 of them listening to the rather polite young lady 'errr and 'uuuum looking for answers to my questions before making her excuses so that she could try and convert my next door neighbour).

Anyway I digress, my point to all this, after reading the last 4 pages, is that somehow, somewhere, religion (and I include all relgions here yet nod towards Islam as it seems to be by far the most dominant of the minority (?) religions in the UK currently) seem to be sucking the identity away of this once fine country, just as the current government are doing in equally good measure, just by different means.

I could rabbit on for hours about this but I wont. I will simply point to one case which I feel sums up my feelings on the way religion (and Islam in particular) does hold more weight than people either realise or want to admit to....

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/84465/Just-4-parents-forced-head-to-resign-over-Muslim-assemblies

I just want to pick out a few choice lines from that...

"They were a minority but it was a difficult issue to deal with as people were frightened to be branded racist."

Fear?

"I am not sure to what extent it adequately represented the views of all the Muslim parents."

Extremism?

"It proved to be disruptive and we were told that if the head returned, the Muslim children would not respect her."

Control?

So she wanted to stop individual group worship and have one community worship assembly. 240 kids in the school, 4 parents complained, all 4 were Muslim. No Jewish parents, no Christian parents, no parents from any other faith (who would have just as much right to complain after 10 previous years of individual faith worship), just the Muslim parents, and just 4 of them at that. Nobody else had issue with what she was proposing. Just the 4 Muslim parents who complained. This is not an isolated incident either. In fact it seems to be a growing trend, either that or Fleet Street is attempting to make us all racist by only covering Muslim affairs? I'm sure the Jews complain about stuff, but do you ever read or hear about it?

I'm all for culture, I'm all for integration of all religions within one society, but I dont get why "WE" (and I use the term as a collective of all those in the UK who have embraced every culture, religion etc without complaint - myself included) should be dictated to (dictated is a stong word, maybe pressured would have been better?) by a section of our new found society (and the minority of those at that) who seem intent on forcing their cultures, values, beliefs etc on "us" without any regard, appreciation or understanding for our own. I mean what would the reaction be if I as a white UK citizen, went to a Muslim state and just demanded that my child had an assembly of their own due to religious grounds?

It's things like this the breed racism in this country, along with the government and other agencies of course, however the minority, as always, seem to fcuk it up for the majority, regardless of religion, race, colour or creed, and what really gets my goat is that we let it happen, and why? Because of the fear of backlash (as someone stated above me).

<--- Runs and hides before he is pelted with rotten tomatoes.....

[winky]

[edited becuase I need to learn to read properly]