Gran Turismo is most significant title ever

[FreeStephen]

Having just bought a car based on racing it in Gran Turismo Concept I just can't believe that no next gen title on any platform matches up to it. In Edge equip the team that did Jak and Daxter said that making cars look good can only go so far, I disagree, PS3 will allow Gran Turismo to model inside cars, it will have better physics, the only thing that will be missing will be that new car smell.

I love Metroid Prime but Gran Turismo to me is not a game but a way of life.

[Jashin]

If you want accurately detailed car interiors etc, then why not try driving your new car, complete with new car smell? Much as I used to love the GT series, I feel that these games have done nothing but harm to the driving game genre. Every title appears to want to compete with GTs 'realism'. If I want a realistic driving 'experience', I'll drive my nice fast car thankyouverymuch.

However, horses for courses etc etc .

[InsideOutBoy]

How will perfectly interiors and improved physics make it a better videogame in any meaningful way?

I play driving games for the thrill of racing. I found the GT3 lacked exciting races, especially when you earned the better cars (thereby leaving the opposition behind), and most definitely during the literal ?endurance? races.

The so-called ?real driving simulator? should try to simulate the adrenaline pumping excitement of racing ? the main reason people race expensive cars in the first place.

Here?s hoping the next Ridge Racer game will do so.

[replicant]

i don't see how gt3 has harmed the racing genre. Theres yet to be a game which really surpasses the scope of the game on any next gen console.

PGR, now that is a game which has damaged the racing genre along with its overhyped father MSR.

[SonicMarmalade]

GTC is **** though. Oh and GT3 more than gives the holy crap I`m going fast feeling. You just have to be good enough to use it to that level.

[Jashin]

Rep, the point I was trying to make was that so many other games go out to ape the 'scope' and 'realism' of the GT games. Almost without exception, all fall flat on their faces. It's a fruitless exercise, but it doesn't appear to stop developers trying, and the market gets overloaded with wanabe titles. Which is annoying, to say the least.

[Super Stu]

The same FreeStephen that plagued the Edge forums with fanboy drivel? Surely not...

Don't.

[Jashin]

Agreed - that was rash and foolish. Apologies to you, FreeStephen.

[Afterbirth]

What! GT3 IS a great title. No matter what you say. Its the dedication the guys put into the program that counts. You think of how many varibles that must have had to alter to get the feeling of the cars correct.
All Polyphony have got to do is three things....

Real Crashes (and screw the companies the don't want them - thats crap - drop em!) - In recent times, in my mind, only Driver (not really a racing title, and Nascar 2003 (PC)) recreates decent crashes, and its bloody wicked.
You can't beat the exhilorating feeling of trashing you car by bad driving (it would also improve the reaction with the AI as you would'nt risk bumping the oppos. cars. to gain places - as you can)


Decent AI (prehaps, but see above)

Point to Point tracks (IE - not laps) - like the orignal NFS did. It was superb idea. Loop tracks are boring.

And whats wrong with trying to beat GT3 - all programmers have ever wanted to do is make realistic racing games, and its only the tech-at-the-time thats restricted them.
The only exception is Outrun, but many other so-called arcade racers (Powerdrift aside) are ****e. So simulation of real world physics is almost a must.

PS....You can't deny the feeling converyed in the rallying sections is as good as CMR, VR or WRC. More so, in some ways.

[kimenon69]

PGR, now that is a game which has damaged the racing genre along with its overhyped father MSR.

OOooo, MSR is mint. Its an amazing idea for the combo points system building up as you slide around cones. may not be super realistic but its more fun than most other racers (stares hatefully at ridge racer).

GT does realism very well (i imagine), its more of a simulation than a racer. i cant see why people find hammering it round in a formula one car, or playing some of the rally stages unexciting....probly been one of my greatest gaming thrills playing GT3

[Jashin]

Apart from the aspects of the game that you identify Afterbirth, I would agrue that the GT games lack a fundamental aspect - fun. I used to love the GT games, I got the first two on import on release, and played them to death. With GT3, my interest just faded and died. There was no enjoyment left in the game for me.

I also think it's a misleading arguement to point out the 'realism' of these games. Although the cars feel nice within the videogame environment, they are not realstic. At least, they don't feel like any car I've ever driven. Of course, fundamental to this is the perennial problem of the drivers eyes being fixed straight ahead, which is a real problem for driving games striving for realism. It used to drive me up the wall trying to judge a corner, only for the apex to slide out of view because I can't turn my head in the game. From what I recall, the TOCA games on the PS1 tried to solve this problem by turning the drivers head into the corner in the in-car view, which sort of worked.

Once again, I think it's a blind alley for developers to try and compete with the GT series. I can appreciate the technical virtuosity of the developers, but ultimately the game leaves me cold.

[Afterbirth]

Apart from the aspects of the game that you identify Afterbirth, I would agrue that the GT games lack a fundamental aspect - fun. I used to love the GT games, I got the first two on import on release, and played them to death. With GT3, my interest just faded and died. There was no enjoyment left in the game for me.

Okay. Check Burnout 2. Now that game was fun AND it had superb crashes (i missed this game from my examples!) but your being unfair. As you said, you played the first two and i totally agree i haven't touched the third much.
The problem is the GT series could head in the same way as Pro EVO and Fifa. If you were to implement the crash system, what your doing is giving the player a more realistic feel.
Your right in that the game is not progressing as well as it should. If the game had real crashes, it would be more fun, i'm sure.
Another point is that you say the game does not feel like any car you've driven, buts thats because the game is effectivly 2D. Your looking at a screen, not around you.
But watch the replays.
The cars handle just like they should (or close) just as if they were real.
In order for those replays to look good, the cars must act realisticly (and they do - given the restriction of 2 dimensional gaming).
Thats why the replays look good.
I feel your being negative about something no game can really do whilst we're looking at TV's to play games.

As for in car views, your right about the view point. As for cockpits, well, when your driving, your concentraing on the road. Optically you really can't see the dash because your minds on the road (unless of course you take your eyes of the road). The problem is, they make the surrounding internals to large (although thats being changed somewhat).

[rylee]

You'll never see the 'surround' effect that you truly get when driving, replicated in a console game. The 3-screen Ferrari 355 Challenge has been the best arcade effort seen recently, but who can afford to try and replicate that at home? (or have the space!)

I still love the GT series, even with all the negative criticism regarding no damage and the ease of race winning once you get into a top car. No other developer has got close to the overall level of polish seen from Polyphony.

The 'fun' aspect of the game obviously is only apparent to certain gamers, who don't desire yet another 'arcade' super-slidey game, with cartoon handling and graphics. Simply tinkering with your chosen weapon and driving for perfection is enough reward. The tracks are well designed circuits, not complete fantasy courses, that would never exist within realistic racing parameters.

Jashin - I don't remember the TOCA games solving the 'judge-a-corner' problem you are having, even with the ability to look sideways, and have never really suffered from this in a GT game. Codemasters are still somewhat lacking in a reliable driving engine as their recent Pro Race Driver game shows. I'll take the 'sterile' ride offered in GT any day over the opposition.

[Afterbirth]

Jashin - I don't remember the TOCA games solving the 'judge-a-corner' problem you are having, even with the ability to look sideways, and have never really suffered from this in a GT game. Codemasters are still somewhat lacking in a reliable driving engine as their recent Pro Race Driver game shows. I'll take the 'sterile' ride offered in GT any day over the opposition.

Whilst the graphics are merely functional, TOCA does put on a mean race. Its a good example of how crashes (albeit somewhat poor) are so effective (unlike GT) and make a difference to an otherwise standard racer.

I do enjoy the glide and turn type racing offered by TOCA (although it exists some cars in GT too).
The sideways views in TOCA were more to do with avoiding crashes whilst over-taking or taking a bend with a car on your inside. Nascar has this too and its majority of corners do not need judging.
I can't rate GT3 over TOCA - they're both very good.
But the feeling of buying a Skyline, spraying it black, putting the blue (neon) rimmed wheels on the sides, and then watching yourself getting 400mph on the TT out monster is ****ing awesome. Try it.
Just watching the thing roar past is just mental (and thats not the fastest car - the the meanest looking).
No other game did that to me, and its all the power of realism.

[Captain Falcon]

GT is in no way a sim. I have playd sim racers and they are virtually unplayable. GT sits between arcade and sim and is all the better for it. The lack of any serious competition shows how good the game is. The only other racer I have liked recently is Burnout2. Its such a fast action arcade racer with good physics and options. The days of simplistic arcade racers is gladly over and I for one cannot wait for GT4 and maybe Daytona3 on Xbox.