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    Retro games are crap.

    Now people may think that someone like me with a fairly large classic collection would not say things like this. However the term 'Retro' is a crap label that make it sound trendy and the 'in' thing.

    Now people do wear rose tinted glasses when playing old games and try and wallpaper over the cracks that show in the games gameplay and state that it's a good game when really it's not. Games DO (and that's DO in big capital letters) date and some date REALLY BADLY (see the pattern here?), as an example see most of the Commodore 64 and Spectrum back library. However there are still games which are still playable now and are worth playing.

    For example Jet Set Willy 2 on the Spectrum looks rubbish by todays standards but it's a good example of an unforgiving game, you make one mistake and that's it your game is over before you can say 'Fecking rubber keys', and what's that? Oh yes and it's still playable after all these years if mainly because the fun aspect of gaming is still there, the basic aim is to jump platforms and collect flashing things whilst avoiding monsters. However the multiple screens, leaps of faith and fecking hard pixel perfect gameplay means that if you have the patience (which is sadly lacking in todays game players) then you will play this game until you get sick of it.

    However lets take another example, I-Robot, yes it's one of the earliest examples of 3D, and for 1983 it looks amazing, however today it does look a tad on the blocky and basic side. The gameplay well you have a robot and he has to move across some platforms and turn them red whilst avoiding the gaze of the 'Eye', oh and there are some birds you must avoid too. Put it this way the game is a more basic version of Konamis Amidar and not as good, yes it was technically amazing but the gameplay sucks.

    Two magazines that don't help are Retro Gamer and GamesTM, both of these should come with pairs of ultra rose coloured sunglasses so you can forget how bad these games really are and pretend they are really good even today. Sadly as they need to sell magazines they aren't going to annoy the geeks who still claim that the Commodore 64 or Spectrum or Sord M5 really was the end and be all of video gaming....

    Now in the I-Robot review in the last edition of GamesTM they gave I-Robot an overall mark of 93%, which back in 1983 would be a fair mark but today? Oh please it's a poor game, which no one in there right mind would give more then an average mark on (or less....). Even the features on machines do feel like they are full of games that are there just because they are running out of really good games to put in there. Most machines of the 80s ilk probably have less then 10 or 20 games that would seriously stand up to games today.

    If your going to re-review a game then take it in todays context, ignore the graphics and sound, they are fairly irrelevent anyway. Basically would you sit and play this game for at least an hour non stop? Or would you hunger for something better? Deathchase on the Spectrum is a good game, and it's fun for 20 minutes but after that you would think okay, what's next? Where as Head over Heels you would probably play for a long time before realising hey is that the time.

    Also remember that if there are better examples of that game then ignore the conversion completely, Chase HQ on the Spectrum is an excellent conversion, sadly it is a fairly rubbish game by todays standards, aging badly but your not going to play it on the Spectrum you would play the arcade or Saturn version of it as that was the best version.

    As an example here are 10 classic games, Play them and give them a mark out of 10. The mark should be on how playable it is, not how you remember it 10 or 20 years ago.

    1 - Jet Set Willy 2 - Spectrum - Software Projects
    2 - Armalyte - Commodore 64 - Thalamus
    3 - Deathchase 3D - Spectrum - Micromega
    4 - Pac-Man - Arcade - Namco
    5 - Elite - BBC Micro - Acornsoft
    6 - I-Robot - Arcade - Atari
    7 - Pong - Anything with two bats and a ball - Various
    8 - Head over Heels - Spectrum - Ocean
    9 - Amidar - Arcade - Konami
    10 - Summer Games - Commodore 64 - Epyx

    Probably should reread this before I submit it but I won't... ^_^;

    #2
    The impression I get from the retro section of GamesTM is that it's purposely done as if it is the 80s - hence the scores are reviewed and marked as they would have been in that era.

    I would have place Chaos Battle of the Wizards in that list. It's a game I still play now and would readily give it 9/10.

    Regards
    Marty

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      #3
      Pac man - now 9/10 easy

      The rest - good point. The thing is no other media has retro as a clasification. I still enjoy playing some older games but others are dire. Same as films, music. It all boils down to personal taste but we dont call it's a wonderful life a retro film now do we?

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        #4
        Armalyte, Pacman, Head Over Heels and Summer Games are still all highly playable, challenging (but not beat them into a pump when they're down), fun games all worthy of all least 9/10 marks today. Elite has aged, only in the fact it isn't hugely action packed and you have to work a lot before you see any of the missions, but still a classic. The rest I wouldn't mark badly, but they have their faults which would bring their marks down. Certainly I wouldn't slag them off or give them anything below a 5 now...
        Lie with passion and be forever damned...

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          #5
          Originally posted by MartyG
          The impression I get from the retro section of GamesTM is that it's purposely done as if it is the 80s - hence the scores are reviewed and marked as they would have been in that era.
          Surely that's missing the point tho? If thats the case then it seems to be the old money for old rope trick again (the one that Nintendo are very good at). If I wanted to see how good a game was back in the day then I would use google and look up to see what C+VG, Your Sinclair, Zzap, etc gave it when they reviewed it the first time around.

          I think it would be better if they reviewed the games as if they had turned up last week and without the rose tinted specs on, be nice to see a review like this. Chase HQ. Race along a fairly bland track with no real sense of driving, crash into a car that you can't overtake until it falls to bits (how come your car stays in great shape all the time) and repeat several times, dull dull dull.

          The point I am trying to make is that there are still classic games made 20 years ago that are great today, but some are basically crap mainly because there are better games out there now. Revs on the BBC is crap nowdays, in it's day it was a shining example of an excellent racing game, but if you wanted to play a realistic low end formula racing game then Toca 2 on PC, Playstation, etc is better.

          Armalyte playable? Just about, but there are hundreds of better horizontal shooters out that piss over armalyte from a great height, again it seems that the rose tinted specs are in full effect here.

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            #6
            It sounds like your argument is that a retro game is only good today if it still stands up in the playability stakes. That's quite a common argument for why people don't like games now as much as they used to because they think there is too much emphasis on the look of a game rather than the way it plays.

            My own experience is that if I boot up a game now that I used to enjoy my initial impression is something like "it looks a bit jerky" or something like that but once you settle in and start to play the game become much less of an issue and the enjoyment kicks in. This happened to me recently playing Snake Rattle 'n' Roll on the NES there's some dodgy "3D" in there and it looks a bit jerky but it plays beautifully and there are some nice touches. Incidentally, was there a Genesis version of this and was it done by Rare?

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              #7
              As for Armalyte, it's all a principal of opinion. I think it's the best horizontal scrolling shooter on the C64 and second best pure shooter overall on the C64 (losing out to Dropzone). It's what an arcade shooter from the late 80s would have turned out like if ported to a lowly 8bit machine. So give me some reasons why you don't like it at all...
              Lie with passion and be forever damned...

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                #8
                Bumpy on the ZX Spectrum... most playable game EVER. IN fact OI don't think Ubisoft did anything as good until Prince of Persia last year.

                By the way MD, what was your actual point, cos you said retro games are all crap and then acknowledged several that are excellent (Jet Set Willy, Head over Heels)

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                  #9
                  You're totally dismissing graphics and sound? So by that logic, Metroid Prime is a really, really **** game? Heh, no arguments here...

                  Why not have the best of both worlds, ala Edge, a look at the game from the perspective of when it was released, and a little look at it in the context of today.

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                    #10
                    Don`t we all enjoy witnessing the evolution of games. Its what gets me excited and the reason I keep playing games.

                    I play retro games now and then just to remenise and have a break. Most games are really outdated now mainly because back in the day the graphics were the main feature and now they are laughable. Some games are still great though, such as Mario and Sonic games( abstract graphics always fair better than games trying to look real), aswell as all the classic shooters and puzzle games.

                    8bit titles are generally totally unplayable now. 16bit games can still stand the test of time no doubt. In fact lots of Snes games such as CV4 and Contra3 are still gripping playable experiences with nice graphics and sound. Snes games seem to fair best, more so than the Megadrive. In fact the only rival for the retro experience is the NeoGeo. The old NG has lots of playable quirky games and its not just about fighters.

                    If you are thinking of showing friends some old skool titles. Be sensible and show them some AAA stuff that is bound to please. With all the great games around its hard to convince people that retro titles have any value at all.

                    Last edited by Leon Retro; 08-06-2004, 15:23.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by goldbricker
                      This happened to me recently playing Snake Rattle 'n' Roll on the NES there's some dodgy "3D" in there and it looks a bit jerky but it plays beautifully and there are some nice touches. Incidentally, was there a Genesis version of this and was it done by Rare?
                      Yeah, there is a MD version and its a very nice title. I never played the Nes version so I dont know if its much different.

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                        #12
                        So basically all this comes down to the fact that we like certain games that you don't. You may have a vast knowledge of games, but that doesn't make your opinion fact (as you so obviously think it does).

                        Your idea of reviewing games by todays standards is incredibly flawed as very, very, few titles would get decent marks.

                        Chase HQ is a great example of a game that looked amazing back in its time and still plays well today. As for your Armalyte jibes, I suggest you actually go and play it, as it's still a great blaster. The same can be said for I, Robot, it's still fantastically playable and hasn't aged.

                        You are correct that certain games have aged badly, but to say that there are only a few great games of yesteryear is laughable (but then, that would be your opinion coming in again...)
                        Last edited by Strider; 08-06-2004, 16:01.

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                          #13
                          Interesting set of replies, will reply to them in full a little later. ^_^

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                            #14
                            Looking forward to it ...

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                              #15
                              I haven't played most of the titles listed by MD as classics, but I'm sure they are fine examples of games,
                              I personally believe that Megadrive retro titles hold up just as well as their Snes counterparts, witness The New Zealand Story, Hellfire, and Ghouls and Ghosts, Thunderforce series and many others, these games stand up to and exceed many of the games released today, the carefully crafted gameplay is still intact

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