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Ish
19-07-2008, 04:41 PM
Wonder if anyone on here has experience with knee injuries?

Been having dreadful problems with my knee for the last few months. I can't run anymore at all and prolonged walking leads to numbness then sharp pain the next day. Yesterday I was laid on my back all day and couldn't bend my knee more than about 30 degrees.

It seems to be any kind of twisting motion - so if I'm on my bike and not perfectly straight with my pedalling I feel it. Same with walking - if I don't watch my step I feel it.

Went to the doc's and he said I had "loose" ligaments (medial and lateral) and suggested rhythmic exercise to strength the muscles to help keep my knee straight (walking, cycling, swimming).

Its not worked at all. I do a lot of walking and thats just exacerbating it. I've started wearing a knee brace and that seems to help but don't think its a long term solution - more a short term to get me through my festival next weekend.

I'll be going back to the doc's next week (well week after probably) but wonder if anyone had similar experiences and what worked for them?

Ops, exercises, whatever really! (fortunately I have a good private health policy)

Garf
19-07-2008, 07:07 PM
I have a very similar issue several years back and was diagnosed as having this (http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23069143/)

More links here (http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6022/6022.asp) ,here (http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/patelladisorders/a/chondromalacia.htm) and here (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chondromalacia-patella/DS00777) - One of these has suggested exercises.

Basically, in my case, my left knee joint became misaligned due to my quad muscles being stronger than my hamstrings, which caused the cartilage to become abraded. In the end, I had to have keyhole surgery in 2000 which fixed it.

I started running mid last year, and after a few months, it started again in my right knee - it locked up one day at work, and I couldn't walk.

Went back to the doctors, and was advised to stop running for a few months, and was proscribed an NSAID (Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug) to reduce the swelling. I was given one called Dicoflex. As a tip, Ibuprofen is an NSAID, albeit a basic one.

I was lucky enough to catch it before I did the same damage as I did to my left knee, so surgery isn't required this time (so far...)

The doctor told me to try stationary bike work to strengthen it (I've read that online as well), but I found that it didn't help me - as such, I've been swimming and rowing more, but think I really need to look at getting physical therapy as the swimming and rowing are more for keeping my fitness up while I can't run.

It's not been too bad lately, so I might start running again, but if it does flare up, I take some more of the medication or Ibuprofen.

Also, it is sometimes referred to as 'Housemaids Knee' but we'll keep that between ourselves...:ph34r: I prefer 'Runners Knee'...

I'm sure there are a few bits I've forgotten, but if I recall anything else, I'll let you know, or if you have any questions, give me a shout..

EDIT - Probably goes without saying, but I'm no doctor, so it's good that you are going back next week to get 'proper' advice from someone with medical training :)

Ish
19-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Cheers Garf. A spot of solidarity always helps :)

I've been pumping myself with Ibuprofen since yesterday - its definetly helped as it was really puffy kinda "inside" if you know what I mean. I've almost got back to being able to sit normally which is nice!

I've had quite a lot of sports injuries over the years (Old Man Ish) but I've always known they were purely muscular or "clean tears". If you want a laugh (and I can laugh now, though at the cause not the injury) I had to be carried off a mountain about 7 years ago. I got blown over by the wind and landed doing the splits. Torn groin. 3 months of physio as I recall and six months until I could really do much. Sounds ludicrous but it hurt like hell!

This feels different though and I said as much to the doctor last time. Its not clicking or seizing up as such (though this weekend the pain has stopped me from bending it) - but its not moving smoothly and feels seriously weird.

I was genuinely surprised when he suggested exercise as it just felt like the wrong thing to do. Hey ho.

And yeah. Let's keep that Housemaids Knee thing to ourselves :)

Garf
19-07-2008, 09:37 PM
No worries - I agree, it is weird that exercise is recommended but it's all to do with strengthening the knee apparently.

Keep us updated with how you get on - I'd be interested to hear if you get any other advice. I'm fairly certain mine hasn't fully healed, and it's only a matter of time until it comes back...

ascender
20-07-2008, 10:29 PM
I believe the more exercise thing can work with certain knee injuries as you're encouraged to build up the surrounding muscles. I'd have thought non-impact would be best to start with, swimming and cycling, or some machines in the gym?

If Ibuprofen works and you think there's swelling, then go for the RICE thing each night - Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation.

Can you get referred to a physio?

With a lot of sporting injuries, its a case of suck it and see. Try different things and see what works for you. And as you get older, rest seems to be the best and only option to let you bounce back properly from injuries.

TommyG
21-07-2008, 09:48 PM
Hey Ish I?m a medical student, did the doctor do any tests on you? To me it sounds like a possible meniscus problem. Also if you have lax ligaments medial and lateral did he test the cruciate ligaments as well? Whereabouts is the swelling? If it?s in the back of the knee it could be a swollen bursae and possibly bursitis (which is usually hot and very swollen, read noticeable) but there are bursae all over the knee and loose ligaments can aggravate them to then cause the swelling. You might also have alignment issues from your fall, sometimes even twisting an ankle or stepping of a curb to jolt the hip can misalign the knee causing joint mobility problems and the fact that you have difficulty when simply walking could also suggest this.

The first thing I would do is run through some tests like Apley?s Grind test and McMurrays for the meniscus and Anterior/Posterior draw tests for the ligaments. If your Doc did all those then great and I?d go with what ascender said and maybe see a physio or osteopath (like me :p) for better advice on which specific exercises to do. Rest is often the best thing and NSAID only numb the pain and don?t fix the underlying problem. The next step would be to ask for a MRI or arthroscopy to see if there are any loose bodies within the joint space causing the inflammation.

In terms of short term treatments, I would highly suggest that you perform a hot and cold treatment on your knee twice a day if you can. RICE is awesome but you also want to get heat into the knee which causes vasodilation so that blood comes to the area bringing nutrients with it.

Good luck and hope you feel better soon :)

MonkeyJuggleDX
22-07-2008, 07:51 AM
Knee injuries suck ass man. About 4 or 5 weeks ago I got a nice hole in my knee playing 5 a side and even though the wound has healed, I still get really bad pains. Even every day things such as sitting down can cause me insane amounts if discomfort.

Reckon it's worth giving one of those injury lawyers a call?

EvilBoris
22-07-2008, 08:08 AM
Unless you want to sue someone, I don't think they will help much.
I was always under the impression that they were mostly for work related stuff where you could claim on the companies insurance?

Garf
22-07-2008, 09:08 AM
Hey Ish I’m a medical student, did the doctor do any tests on you? To me it sounds like a possible meniscus problem. Also if you have lax ligaments medial and lateral did he test the cruciate ligaments as well? Whereabouts is the swelling? If it’s in the back of the knee it could be a swollen bursae and possibly bursitis (which is usually hot and very swollen, read noticeable) but there are bursae all over the knee and loose ligaments can aggravate them to then cause the swelling. You might also have alignment issues from your fall, sometimes even twisting an ankle or stepping of a curb to jolt the hip can misalign the knee causing joint mobility problems and the fact that you have difficulty when simply walking could also suggest this.

The first thing I would do is run through some tests like Apley’s Grind test and McMurrays for the meniscus and Anterior/Posterior draw tests for the ligaments. If your Doc did all those then great and I’d go with what ascender said and maybe see a physio or osteopath (like me :p) for better advice on which specific exercises to do. Rest is often the best thing and NSAID only numb the pain and don’t fix the underlying problem. The next step would be to ask for a MRI or arthroscopy to see if there are any loose bodies within the joint space causing the inflammation.

In terms of short term treatments, I would highly suggest that you perform a hot and cold treatment on your knee twice a day if you can. RICE is awesome but you also want to get heat into the knee which causes vasodilation so that blood comes to the area bringing nutrients with it.

Good luck and hope you feel better soon :)

and that's the proper medical advice from someone trained I was talking about :D

Tommy - of the tests you mentioned, does one of them involve the doctor pushing the knee\leg back into a sort of V shape (sorry for the vague description) ? As I recall my doctor did something like that when I had mine checked over.

charlesr
22-07-2008, 10:55 AM
I've had knee pain for a while, mainly due to mountain bike accidents. It got to the point where I couldn't walk down stairs or get into a car (note the downwards movement) before I decided to fix it. I've eradicated it via various muscle trainings. In a way it's probably just masked it - the extra muscles are stabilising the area.

The things I was doing are quite advanced though and could have lead to more injury if I'd cocked them up. If a doc says "get on a bike" or "do walking" to fix this sort of thing, I'd walk away.... You need something that balances all the muscles around the front and back of the knee.

You mentioned it specifically hurts when twisting. Here's one (if this hurts stop instantly and think of something else):
Put both arms out in front. Core tight. Whilst moving one arm around to the side slowly to destabilise you, do gentle squats (knees stay directly above the ankles, lower thigh to 45°), then come back up and bring the arm back around to the front.

As you get more confident, try it on a Bosu or other such nonstable device.
Then on one leg (be sure to do sets on both legs even if only one is hurting).
Add a medicine ball passed from one hand to the other at the middle so that you have to concentrate harder.

This really worked for me. The destablisation of the twisting motion and the bosu made use of as many of the knee muscles as possible (rather than the squat being the worker). At the end of 3 months the pain was gone and my balance was vastly improved. It still comes back every now but this keeps it at bay.

Note that your knee problem might be totally different so careful as you go!

Ish
22-07-2008, 01:37 PM
Wow - thanks for all the advice guys - its much appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on!

TommyG
23-07-2008, 05:18 AM
and that's the proper medical advice from someone trained I was talking about :D

Tommy - of the tests you mentioned, does one of them involve the doctor pushing the knee\leg back into a sort of V shape (sorry for the vague description) ? As I recall my doctor did something like that when I had mine checked over.

Yup that's the posterior/anterior draw test, which tests your cruciate ligaments. If there's abnormal movement backwards and forwards from below the knee then it's a positive test :)

Good advice charlesr alot of knee problems can be resolved with correct postural and alignment exercises but they have to be done right, which I think is the main key.

Oh and if you really wanted to try something new, Acupuncturists treat loose ligaments by pricking/piercing the ligaments with needles. This causes scar tissue to form which in turn shortens the ligaments :ph34r:

Rick
23-07-2008, 03:10 PM
I've got a knee injury. I've had it for years.

I dont' know what is wrong with it. I can't sit for long periods of time with my knees bent because the pain seems to build up and i really need to stretch the leg. Impact excercise aggrivates it, but non impact isn't as bad it just throbs a bit when i've finished.
When im doing leg curls at the gym it seems to tense up at the back of the knee.

I really should go and see someone about it, especially as i have private health as well.

k0pp0
28-07-2008, 06:06 PM
Ditto on the knee pain suckage. I've had my left knee sorted for a medial meniscus tear, and I still can't kneel properly on it without weird pains. And now I'm getting similar pains in my right knee - fecking great.

Garf
08-02-2009, 01:54 PM
I have a very similar issue several years back and was diagnosed as having this (http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23069143/)

More links here (http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6022/6022.asp) ,here (http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/patelladisorders/a/chondromalacia.htm) and here (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chondromalacia-patella/DS00777) - One of these has suggested exercises.

Basically, in my case, my left knee joint became misaligned due to my quad muscles being stronger than my hamstrings, which caused the cartilage to become abraded. In the end, I had to have keyhole surgery in 2000 which fixed it.

I started running mid last year, and after a few months, it started again in my right knee - it locked up one day at work, and I couldn't walk.

Went back to the doctors, and was advised to stop running for a few months, and was proscribed an NSAID (Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug) to reduce the swelling. I was given one called Dicoflex. As a tip, Ibuprofen is an NSAID, albeit a basic one.

I was lucky enough to catch it before I did the same damage as I did to my left knee, so surgery isn't required this time (so far...)

The doctor told me to try stationary bike work to strengthen it (I've read that online as well), but I found that it didn't help me - as such, I've been swimming and rowing more, but think I really need to look at getting physical therapy as the swimming and rowing are more for keeping my fitness up while I can't run.

It's not been too bad lately, so I might start running again, but if it does flare up, I take some more of the medication or Ibuprofen.

Also, it is sometimes referred to as 'Housemaids Knee' but we'll keep that between ourselves...:ph34r: I prefer 'Runners Knee'...

I'm sure there are a few bits I've forgotten, but if I recall anything else, I'll let you know, or if you have any questions, give me a shout..

EDIT - Probably goes without saying, but I'm no doctor, so it's good that you are going back next week to get 'proper' advice from someone with medical training :)

Arise from the grave !!

Seems I was a bit hasty in thinking that my right knee would be spared surgery.. Had the results of an MRI last week, and have 3 tears in the cartilage, and need an arthroscopy to repair them - will be happening some time in the next 3 months and I'll be laid up for 2-3 weeks afterwards :thumbd:

NemesiS
09-02-2009, 12:49 AM
Ask your doctor for Dicoflex, Its what i use for my knee. I played rugby for years and i get no end of grief with my left knee. Its constantly inflamed and they are the best anti-inflammation pills going.

It gets that bad that sometimes i can't even move my leg...seriously. Like my joints are swollen. Thats what it could be.