UK XI: Degrees of Care

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/sep/07/rishi-sunak-uk-europe-horizon-erasmus-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-64f97acc8f086d013616cb62#block-64f97acc8f086d013616cb62

The UK rejoins the Horizon scheme leading to Sunak being immediately chased about rejoining other EU schemes

[Neon Ignition]

Game of prone: Montenegrins lie down in hope of being crowned laziest citizen | Montenegro | The Guardian
Wait until the very last person is standing and then deny them the title and prize. They're proactively competing in a competition, that's not being lazy

Give it to a local who's lived like this for years and can't be motivated to even enter the contest

[Anpanman]

The train services, due to the Tory mismanagement and privatisation, only care about revenue. They're not ran for the public good, and that culture goes from top to bottom. They're build to maximise revenue. That doesn't mean they strive to offer a good service; that's a falsehood the privatisation fans try to sell the public.

Change starts at the top. If the trains were ran for the public good, as a public service, as they should be, should've been, and should always be, then their staff would be proud to work for, I dunno, British Rail, the transport backbone of the country. But as it is, they work for some random person who has stashed all their money in the Cayman Islands, and honestly doesn't care if trains arrive at all, as long a they get to keep doing so.

I get that "they're paid to do a job", but I value my workplace's ethics over my work ethic. I'll give a **** when my employer does.

Been to Japan enough times thanks, so I'm fully aware of how things go there, if you read my earlier comment this has been going on for over forty years, before privatisation, some things were better then but not all.
Overall the mis-management hasn't helped but it's a fact that heavily unionised industries have better pay/conditions but are less productive which was my point.

I get that "they're paid to do a job", but I value my workplace's ethics over my work ethic. I'll give a **** when my employer does.

So standing around and just ignoring customers is ok? If they don't like it then leave and get a job working in one of the examples I gave but they won't as they have it easy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66727873

You don't seem to understand how trains work the driver cant just set off when he feels like it, he has to be cleared to leave the station. If he was a replacement driver or a shift change then he will of known his departure time and when he was cleared to leave by the signals. Him talking to his colleague will of had no bearing on when your train set off and didn't delay you at all.

I understand a little of how the train network runs but dawdling along without without a care in the world doesn't set a good impression, the driver should be getting into the cab and waiting for the light to change instead of gassing to his mate, the train was already late he was just making it later, a few of us got out to see, nothing on the line in front or coming from Deansgate so the line more than likely was signalling clear.

[prinnysquad]

I don’t think that’s a fact at all. Bit of a kick in the teeth for a lot of people who work their bollocks off, that one.

[Anpanman]

You will always get people who work hard and take pride, and your sentiment can be applied to a multitude of situations. There is also evidence for and against but overall in my experience it's true.

[prinnysquad]

I reckon it’s the opposite for me. I will always support good wages and conditions. I think it makes people work hard, because they don’t want to lose it. It’s a good motivator. Whereas undervalued, poorly-paid whipping boys see no value in their work because their work sees no value in them. Just in my experience, anyway.

[Hirst]

I'm struggling to see what part the unions have to play in overall productivity, being that the Japanese railway system is both incredibly productive and heavily unionised.

Actually, Japan isn't far off the UK for overall trade union membership (and well above America).

[Anpanman]

I'm struggling to see what part the unions have to play in overall productivity, being that the Japanese railway system is both incredibly productive and heavily unionised.

Actually, Japan isn't far off the UK for overall trade union membership (and well above America).

From my experience Japanese unions work with companies to achieve productivity. One example is we knew an engineer who was returning home after his stint here in the UK, he could fly back business class but his union advised him to go economy to save the company money, can't see that happening here.

Unions tend not to agree to wage increase tied to increases in productivity, where they do it may be an idea to see if those productivity targets were ever achieved.

Look at the current or recent disputes, underneath all the rhetoric (and both sides tend to pile it up) unions tend to want to hang on to outdated systems as if they are still in the 70's.

Again I'm speaking from my own experience.
Don't get me wrong unions bring a lot of positivity, safety at work would not be at the high levels it is today without unions driving it, managers and directors would not have got safety to the level it is today.

[prinnysquad]

Anecdotal evidence to support a view only has a certain value.

Wage increases linked to productivity aren’t a good idea in my opinion. Bonuses, maybe, but not basic. Productivity has a finite ceiling, and can suffer due to any number of issues - raw materials, crises, poor management, political changes. People need some level of security, and not to have their livelihood tied to something as malleable as productivity.

[fishbowlhead]

I'm struggling to see what part the unions have to play in overall productivity, being that the Japanese railway system is both incredibly productive and heavily unionised.

Actually, Japan isn't far off the UK for overall trade union membership (and well above America).

Difference is people do their job to a good standard in Japan and the railways are actually managed properly, unlike the UK where everything is run to to the ground to maximise shareholder dividends.

[Golgo]

Before British Rail was privatized the British government called in Japanese railway consultants for their view on whether the plan could be a success. The Japanese said it was bound to fail because the Brits wanted to turn a profit by transport tickets alone and also by separating rail companies from the actual rail track ownership; whereas the Japanese model was (and is) you run the trains (and own/maintain your own rails) at cost or even at a loss in order to get passengers to attractive destinations to spend their money there if they choose to, i.e.: cool stations with lots of beautiful shops, bars, restaurants and apartments (the rail companies are the landlords, obviously, and sometimes own the businesses as well e.g. the Tokyu [Line] department stores, so they have a vested interest in bringing people cheaply and efficiently to their stations with these spending opportunities). Britain said thanks and told the Japanese to **** off in the belief that you can make a profit through ticket sales alone, and that's where we're at. Skyrocketing ticket prices and dilapidated stations/nearby environs that only junkies want to spend time or money in.

[Lebowski]

I understand a little of how the train network runs but dawdling along without without a care in the world doesn't set a good impression, the driver should be getting into the cab and waiting for the light to change instead of gassing to his mate, the train was already late he was just making it later, a few of us got out to see, nothing on the line in front or coming from Deansgate so the line more than likely was signalling clear.

Again and i feel like somebody needs to watch Thomas the Tank engine, just because from what you see from the station that the line is clear doesn't mean it its clear further down the line. where getting into gammon territory here your assuming that him talking on the station is not work related and immediately jump to the he's making me more late rubbish, i take it when your at work you don't talk to colleagues at all under any circumstance.

[fishbowlhead]

Before British Rail was privatized the British government called in Japanese railway consultants for their view on whether the plan could be a success. The Japanese said of course not because the Brits wanted to turn a profit by transport tickets alone and also by separating rail companies from the actual rail track ownership; whereas the Japanese model was (and is) you run the trains (and own your own rails) at cost or at a loss in order to get passengers to attractive destinations to spend their money there if they choose to, i.e.: cool stations with lots of beautiful shops, bars, restaurants and apartments (the rail companies are the landlords, obviously, so have a vested interested in bringing people to attractive stations with these spending opportunities). Britain said thanks and told the Japanese to **** off in the belief that you can make a profit through ticket sales alone, and that's where we're at.

And that's where were at indeed, this shows you how greedy and small minded the UK gov really is, they brought in experts from a system that clearly works well (and continues to do so daily and probably will long term) took one look at it and set fire too the idea and poured petrol on it for good measure, I'm sure their pals from oxford & cambridge have done just fine off the contracts though, and that's what matters here.

[Asura]

And that's where were at indeed, this shows you how greedy and small minded the UK gov really is, they brought in experts from a system that clearly works well (and continues to do so daily and probably will long term) took one look at it and set fire too the idea and poured petrol on it for good measure, I'm sure their pals from oxford & cambridge have done just fine off the contracts though, and that's what matters here.

That totally makes sense, though.

"But we JUST BOUGHT the railways! Hotels are already privatised, we can't steal those!"

[Anpanman]

Anecdotal evidence to support a view only has a certain value.

Wage increases linked to productivity aren’t a good idea in my opinion. Bonuses, maybe, but not basic. Productivity has a finite ceiling, and can suffer due to any number of issues - raw materials, crises, poor management, political changes. People need some level of security, and not to have their livelihood tied to something as malleable as productivity.

If it's productivity done right then you would factor in thresholds and the like, anyway another reason unions don't like them is that members doing the same job could end up getting different wages and they want everybody to be paid the same, they also don't like project bonuses either.

Again and i feel like somebody needs to watch Thomas the Tank engine, just because from what you see from the station that the line is clear doesn't mean it its clear further down the line. where getting into gammon territory here your assuming that him talking on the station is not work related and immediately jump to the he's making me more late rubbish, i take it when your at work you don't talk to colleagues at all under any circumstance.

Not really sure of half of what you are saying but you don't know whether the discussion was work related or not so it's a useless point. By the mannerisms I'm guessing it wasn't work related, let's leave it at that.