UK XI: May Day

[Neon Ignition]

Incompetent too. The line they've taken is one that would only work during an election cycle once. As soon as you've used that salvo and got into power the next five years have to be about delivery or your head goes on the block nbext time around. Blaming the left when half a decade of a massive majority in power just exposes the failings, even if the excuse held water it would still mark a devastating reflection that you're incapable of delivering under any circumstance. To have let the numbers get so much worse is the final nail and the best part of this self-inflicted gunshot is that it's all their own making. The whole approach is to placate the UKIP/Reform bigots side that they're so obsessed with yet if they had any self-awareness they'd realise that that camp will never, ever again rebuild the support they held durnig Brexit and any gains are irrelevant next to the losses to Labour - the only votes they actually need to be winning over.

Immigration was never an issue, it's a fake scandal bigged up by racists to push for Brexit and is a dead end they've walked themselves into because in 2019 they allowed the party to be flooded with soon to be exorcised racists. To go through Johnson then Truss and Sunak then fail to try to reign that defeated part of the party is his biggest failing. He's endlessly bowed to them and still today he continues to do so, marching the party towards bigger and bigger losses.

Invest in processing immigration to speed the process up, then put everything else into infrastructure. The rest will take care of itself, the boats are merely a symptom.

[Neon Ignition]

‘I’m a longtime devotee’: Rishi Sunak apologises for wearing Adidas Samba trainers | Rishi Sunak | The Guardian
Not sure what's sadder. Sunak's ill suited attempt to wear the trainers with his suit to look 'cool' or the trainer fans response


UK ministers considering banning sale of smartphones to under-16s | Smartphones | The Guardian

[Asura]

Immigration was never an issue, it's a fake scandal bigged up by racists to push for Brexit

To be fair... Part of the problem is that they've made the discussion toxic. It's hard to have it now without looking like you're a racist. The two sides seem to be 'no borders, no nations, no deportations' and 'I want England for the English' and there's no in-between.

Like how the net migration to the UK has been over 600k a year in 2022 and 2023. That's 1.2m more people in the UK than we had in 2021. That's the population of Manchester and Liverpool. And that's documented, potentially missing some who are undocumented. And it could be just as many by 2025, 2027... Adding the population of one of the UK's larger cities every year is unsustainable without proper planning.

The issue is the Tory plan for it is probably "oh maaaan, the 26 houses I own are gonna be worth so much money by 2030" but I mean a plan that can work for the rest of us!

[Nu-Eclipse]

Part of the problem is that they've made the discussion toxic. It's hard to have it now without looking like you're a racist.

Pretty much because the usual suspects who drive the immigration discussion have shown that they are actually racist time and time again.

[Neon Ignition]

Absolutely, it's a big problem now but largely because they were dumb enough to cement everyone focusing on it when it was at 250,000 in 2016 and have kept it at the centre of discussion as they've actively gone out of their way to make it worse. I suspect that in 2025 when Sunak is gone the likes of Braverman are going to make a lot of noise in their big push to finally take over the party only to see themselves stranded in no man's land for a few years till they're booted out of key roles themselves when they realise their internal supporters are no longer there and their noise is just that.

It reminds me of the Trans crisis. An engineered drama over something that is simple and affects a tiny amount of the population, the Tories have just forgotten how to operate without creating 'boogeyman' attack lines. It never dawns on them to just try doing their jobs.

[Nu-Eclipse]

‘I’m a longtime devotee’: Rishi Sunak apologises for wearing Adidas Samba trainers | Rishi Sunak | The Guardian
Not sure what's sadder. Sunak's ill suited attempt to wear the trainers with his suit to look 'cool' or the trainer fans response

Was he inspired to wear them by the working classes that he openly admitted to never befriending?

[Nu-Eclipse]

Absolutely, it's a big problem now but largely because they were dumb enough to cement everyone focusing on it when it was at 250,000 in 2016 and have kept it at the centre of discussion as they've actively gone out of their way to make it worse. I suspect that in 2025 when Sunak is gone the likes of Braverman are going to make a lot of noise in their big push to finally take over the party only to see themselves stranded in no man's land for a few years till they're booted out of key roles themselves when they realise their internal supporters are no longer there and their noise is just that.

Include Farage in that. If the Tories really do welcome him back into the party then all bets are off - he'll become the Leader. It's inevitable.

[Neon Ignition]

Any time they discuss the option it exposes where they're at and how lost they are. Eye watering mis-read of the 2019 result

[Dogg Thang]

The two sides seem to be 'no borders, no nations, no deportations'

Is this part actually true though? Is there anyone really making this case or is this how it's depicted by the racists and so has just become a way of weaponising an anti-racist approach?

[Asura]

Is this part actually true though? Is there anyone really making this case or is this how it's depicted by the racists and so has just become a way of weaponising an anti-racist approach?

I mean... I've been at two protests in recent years where this was part of the chanting; though admittedly no-one marches in the street with a sign saying "LET'S TAKE A MEASURED APPROACH TO THIS"

[Dogg Thang]

admittedly no-one marches in the street with a sign saying "LET'S TAKE A MEASURED APPROACH TO THIS"

This is very true!

It's a problem which we saw years ago and it has got so much worse. If one side (any side on any issue) is loud, basic and angry, coming at it with a quiet, nuanced, measured approach just gets lost. The resistance to anything has to get loud and kind of stupid, appealing to base instincts. And so things just get louder and stupider. But I don't know the alternative.

[Neon Ignition]

Labour and the Tories both need to seperate the issues. Illegal immigration is its own issue, legal immigration needs to be hugely expanded as nothing in this country is going to get fixed without out and whether its the social issues the left want to address or the money profiteering approaches of the right - neither are getting what they want till the taps are turned up on numbers

[Asura]

Labour and the Tories both need to seperate the issues. Illegal immigration is its own issue, legal immigration needs to be hugely expanded as nothing in this country is going to get fixed without out and whether its the social issues the left want to address or the money profiteering approaches of the right - neither are getting what they want till the taps are turned up on numbers

I think, again, it has to do with a lack of political will, or political vision.

With any course of action, I feel an important step is being able to visualise your desired end goal, regardless of if you'll make it, and understand what that looks like and how it's meant to work.

Because to do otherwise is like going on a journey without a map. Part of me feels we're still reeling from Brexit. It's like, for years, you had an angry man outside throwing rocks through the windows of Westminster; then we ran outside, told him he got to be Prime Minister now, and asked him what he wanted to do to run the country. But angry-rock-throwing-guy doesn't know how to run a country, and doesn't care about the nuances therein; he just really wants [insert really angry racist/xenophobic thing here], and he thought throwing rocks would achieve that.

HS2 is the best example, I think. I don't agree with it; I think it was a bad idea. We should've spent the money in a more distributed manner around the entire rail network (HS2 was transparently an attempt to try and make property in Birmingham acquire London Weighting in value). But we committed to it and it was fully decided we were doing it, so we should've done it. Now we've got no high speed rail, no upcoming high speed rail, and we're gonna pay billions for the privelege of... Cancelling something that never existed.

[Lebowski]

We never would have had to cancel large parts of it if they didn't waste money paying companies to sit around waiting to start building it. purchasing the whole route then employing the company to build is how other high-speed rail has been built in Europe, its how they are able to bring in projects on budget.

[fishbowlhead]

We never would have had to cancel large parts of it if they didn't waste money paying companies to sit around waiting to start building it. purchasing the whole route then employing the company to build is how other high-speed rail has been built in Europe, its how they are able to bring in projects on budget.

Hs2 wasn’t and never was about building the rail structure and improving things, it was about making that good boy jhonsey from Eaton rich and the others mp’s richer, hence why it “suddenly” fell apart and everyone’s making out like bandits.