Canon-Strike III: Star Wars

[MartyG]

I honestly think that there are two good Star Wars films - Star Wars and Star Wars 2 (Empire).

The rest of them range from average to poor.

Agree? Disagree?

Disagree, Empire is the only good Star Wars film.

Not to say there isn't some enjoyment to be had from a Star Wars marathon, but in terms of critically analysing a film (and there's a very good reason not to do this), none of them other than Empire really stand up to any scrutiny.

[Dogg Thang]

The difficulty I have with that assessment is that, as much as I love Empire, out of all the films it is the one which, for me, exists most as part of a series. It didn't have to bring the movie to a close. So it's a weird thing where I love it but feel it hard to say it, as a single unit, is a great movie because it requires the other movies for me. If it was the only movie that existed, I think I'd find it unsatisfactory. If Return of the Jedi was the only one, I think it's a far, far weaker movie but I think it would be an easier one to take on its own. The original delivers in a lovely tidy package.

So I kind of feel like Empire cheats.

Edit: Should be said though, if anyone is looking for cinematic masterpieces I'm not convinced that the space wizards movies are the most appropriate place to look.

[Asura]

Edit: actually that closure I got from watching Ep3 has a lot to do with that. Since that movie, I haven’t really ever had my panties in a bunch about anything related to Star Wars. I never expected any decent Star Wars ever again. Any moment of enjoyment is a bonus. If there is stuff I don’t like, who cares? They’re just movies.

Yeah; this is similar to my perspective, but at a different time; it was once the Lucasfilm/Disney buyout happened and they announced that the Expanded Universe was cut off. I was done.

Now I still love the franchise but place no stock in what's done with it. Anything good is an unexpected pleasure.

[wakka]

I guess for me it’s a different set of answers depending on whether it’s about which films I think are really strong films and which films I enjoy watching. I tend to consider it about enjoyment more and, outside of the prequels, I enjoy most of the Star Wars films.

Edit: actually that closure I got from watching Ep3 has a lot to do with that. Since that movie, I haven’t really ever had my panties in a bunch about anything related to Star Wars. I never expected any decent Star Wars ever again. Any moment of enjoyment is a bonus. If there is stuff I don’t like, who cares? They’re just movies.

That's fair, and I want to stress that I'm not coming from a place of 'George Lucas ruined my childhood' nerd rage. I personally don't derive a whole lot of enjoyment from the other films in the franchise now. Episode 9 was outright dull. The old 'sound and fury signifying nothing'.

I used to be a real Star Wars fan - I was REALLY excited about 7, and enjoyed it at the cinema. But over the last couple of years, I've realised that I don't get much out of the series at all any more, with the exception of those first two films. I still love those, because they're just very well made films, and like millions of others I have great memories associated with them.

RE: Empire. Everyone says it's the best film, but Dogg's post on this is spot on IMO. Because it's an interstitial which doesn't have a proper ending, for me it's only the second best. It's the first which I think is the overall strongest of all 9 pictures (I haven't seen the spinoffs). It's a beautifully self contained piece of late 70s popcorn cinema that's just a ton of fun.

[Lebowski]

The last three main line star wars films feel very disjointed almost like they had 3 different teams making them and rather than flowing they actively fight each other and jettison ideas between films. Anyone can be a Jedi, Rey is super super strong despite being a nobody look this little olive twist chap just force pulled a sweeping brush and here comes Fagan for a musical number........ actually scratch all that shes a relative of Palpatine god knows what we where thinking.

Who remembers Finn and Rose' amazing love story in the second film where she nearly dies to prove her love for Finn and they walk off into the sunset, well until the next film comes around and Disney is angry that they have a warehouse full of Rose action figures that nobody wants, whats that Rose has to go away now, wheres she going to the moon oh no she died on the way there did she poor poochy i mean rose.

You could argue at least the first and second trilogy tried to have some sort of cohesion, a greater focus on Anakin would have made for a better film than the hodge podge of characters and story's we got.

[Cassius_Smoke]

The prequels and sequels have the same problem in that neither have a lead character I care about. I cared nothing for Ani or Obi.

[Lebowski]

The prequels and sequels have the same problem in that neither have a lead character I care about. I cared nothing for Ani or Obi.

which is why it needed better casting and a central pivotal character if 4/5/6 is lukes story then 1/2/3 should of been Anakins


Young Anakin epidsode one his life as a slave and at the end we see him freed and brought for jedi training with the death of his mother leaves him angry and alone, hes brought to a jedi temple to be trained and we start to see the cracks forming.

Episode two Jedi training resentment builds that's hes being held back as hes clearly better than any other trainees, bring in the sith working in the background too overthrow the Jedi that is complacent and on shaky ground. Finish the film with the fall of the Jedi and Anakins switch to the dark side, no kid slaying just a person convinced that the sith way is better and that to this end you have to crack a few eggs.

Episode three ,Vadar kicking ass and taking names, flying about in the Rogue Shadow killing off jedi falling deepr and deeper into the dark side and making more and more morally wrong decisions leaving him alone isolated cold and uncaring.

pepper the above with some crazy action scenes like episode ones pod race but remove the stupid court room and jar jar stuff and focus on telling an intresring story about a character that people want to know about and you have the makings of a film trilogy.

[Dogg Thang]

The prequels and sequels have the same problem in that neither have a lead character I care about. I cared nothing for Ani or Obi.

Whatever about Obi-Wan, I think that it was next to impossible to sustain three movies telling the story of "young Vader" when we already knew where they were headed. I realise maybe most Star Wars fans might disagree but I think he was the wrong main character... hence barely being a main character, at least in the first one. There was just nothing interesting about that story unless they pulled off some seriously epic twist that we couldn't see coming (like Vader was never Anakin all along or some nonsense).

The prequels are essentially redundant.

That could have been different had the main character been someone else, like his missus. Someone who we knew next to nothing about, who they could tell a fresh story about.

[Asura]

The prequels are essentially redundant.

You remind me of how I laughed when I saw the first advert for Gotham, which ended with the tagline:

"Ever wonder what Gotham was like, before Batman?"

No. Not even for an instant. And I don't get why I or anyone else would care!

[Neon Ignition]

Gotham's an interesting one, it was great fun but not at all for the reasons the show was started for. The new Gotham PD focused TV spin-off of the upcoming Batman film seems to be re-attempting the premise with a more grounded approach, very focused on police corruption and exploring how a city like Gotham could come to exist when it's in a way an exception even within the DC universe.

[Dogg Thang]

The premise of Gotham sounded ridiculous to me. And it wasn't the only one (Caprica... some other shows). The flip side of that is that I always reckoned The Dark Knight would have been a better movie without Batman.

[Lebowski]

Whatever about Obi-Wan, I think that it was next to impossible to sustain three movies telling the story of "young Vader" when we already knew where they were headed. I realise maybe most Star Wars fans might disagree but I think he was the wrong main character... hence barely being a main character, at least in the first one. There was just nothing interesting about that story unless they pulled off some seriously epic twist that we couldn't see coming (like Vader was never Anakin all along or some nonsense).

The prequels are essentially redundant.

That could have been different had the main character been someone else, like his missus. Someone who we knew next to nothing about, who they could tell a fresh story about.

Films like Apollo 13, and shows like Chernobyll show that you can still have captivating story telling even if you know the outcome, even though it took three films to get to Vader it felt rushed and without weight or consequence or for a reason for him to change to the dark side. it would of been very easy for them to build Vader into the person he is in the original trilogy across the three films.

I always thought a better path for his change would of been to Have him come to a resent the Jedi when he sees how ineffective they are as the ruling power. The galaxy is a pretty ****ty place slaves and mafia like cartels like the Hutt are left to do what they want and at no point are the jedi trying to stamp this sort of thing out, and if you join the dots them ignoring this is why his mother and him are slaves and why his mother dies in the way she dose.

having him go full on to child killer was a stupid choice as was him getting all his injury's at once, in the original expanded universe you see vadar as a lot more human at the start of his journey as a sith and its injurys he picks up along the way thorugh his many battles. also rather than have padme die in child birth use it as another reason for him to hate the Jedi make them responsible for her death and use it as another reason why he sides with the Sith.

[Neon Ignition]

The premise of Gotham sounded ridiculous to me. And it wasn't the only one (Caprica... some other shows). The flip side of that is that I always reckoned The Dark Knight would have been a better movie without Batman.

That's pretty much why I've never ranked TDK that highly, it's a great film but a terrible Batman film. Begins is far superior in that regard though it's a bit moot when Rises messed it all up

[Lebowski]

That's pretty much why I've never ranked TDK that highly, it's a great film but a terrible Batman film. Begins is far superior in that regard though it's a bit moot when Rises messed it all up

Where Gotham works best is as an origin story for the Vilians, the Penguin and the Riddler are great characters and seeing there rise to super villans is pretty captivating. I wasn't that keen to see a young James Gordon though as hes always just been a batman prop in the past like Albert the butler, a device for batman to monologue too. I'm not sure he carry's the show or is interesting enough playing the clean man among dirty cops is a pretty tired trope.

[Brad]

Gotham was hugely entertaining. Penguin was magnificent and Riddler wasn't far behind.