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    On this one I'm completely on the side of the argument that it's not the normal sluggish start scenario for Ubisoft ala Resident Evil 7, it's a very poor performance that's to blame instead.

    I feel part of the reason is that they had to become aggressive and sharp minded to fend off the Vivendi acquisition but once that was done they'd had a taste of EA style success and have pursued that. Rainbox Six: Siege has been a great success story for their GAAS model grafting, turning around a slow launch into a lasting success but such feats are rare. Stack it against their other output and it's hard to not see the rot set in:

    Far Cry: Has been in decline all generation, respinning increasingly bland repackages of FC3 to weaker results as it goes.
    The Crew: Never really recovered and the sequel was effectively a repackage of the game with DLC aspects tagged onto it. Ubisoft was way too slow to wise up that this franchise was a misfire.
    Watch Dogs: Already wobbled with its soft figures for the sequel meaning a lot rests on the next game for the future of the series.
    The Division: Largely sold on the hype of its reveal at the start of the generation, as much as I enjoyed the final game there was no hiding the lack of interest that surrounded the sequel. I think this is a key failure for Ubisoft too as it embodies their GAAS model fairly well and its slow performance isn't akin to Resident Evil which was a complete reinvention of a long running franchise so polarizing by default, this was more of the same so should have been a relatively easy sell... unless the audience came away from the first game feeling done with it.
    Ghost Recon: I feel this suffered a little from early sales pitch which neither pleased long term fans but also sold it as some sort of team GTA experience whereas the reality was shonky. The latest game was a wreck of things no-one wanted and late into the GAAS party for Ubisoft when players aren't as easily fooled.
    For Honor: Ubisoft have done well keeping the lights on for this so long but I'll happily call it right now - if they make a sequel they'll have another flop on their hands
    Assassin's Creed: Possibly the hardest to pin. I think franchise loyalty helps with this being so long running, as does current audience thirst for more Witcher III style experiences. The most successful, not sure its current model will endure either though.

    To me, with next-generation launching late next year it makes the delays to these upcoming games terminal unless it's with the explicit intent of retooling them to ride out the next gen hype in hopes that lifts three games that were likely also going to struggle at launch. I honestly don't feel they've been delayed for any other reason than to launch alongside next-gen machine editions.


    Ubisoft strongly needs to re-evaluate its line up and make better judgments case by case as to whether MTX, GAAS etc applies. Gods and Monsters will bomb whenever it launches personally, Rainbow Six Quarantine should be DLC for Siege, it won't sell as it is. Watch Dogs 3 is the biggest one lined up and should be a complete package at launch, no real long term DLC plans.

    They also need to stop the half dozen variants at launch as well. Standard Editions, Deluxe's etc. Such a bad look from the outset making people feel nickel and dimed before they even begin to play. You really can only have 1-2 GAAS games per gen as a company and Ubisoft lost sight of this, effectively falling into the same hole as EA so it's unsurprising both enter next-gen in weak positions.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Atticus View Post
      The problem with The Division 2 was the first one was better. Maybe not technically ... but thematically, much better. Washington was dreary compared to snowy New York.

      Still had a lot of fun with both though
      The setting was better. I do so miss the snowy backdrop. I think the Division needs to go back to that and also really bring in an interactive environment/ Like when you shoot cars they explode. Too many of the backdrops in The Division are static

      Division II is the better game to play mind and the music is incredible; So ace when you're in a great team of players ready for a huge battle and the music kicks in ...

      Last edited by Team Andromeda; 25-10-2019, 09:05.

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        For me, and i'm sure there are plenty of other people, I'm just not interested in any of the titles Ubi are producing.
        I look at that list [MENTION=345]Neon Ignition[/MENTION] and I don't want to play any of them. They are either sold as GaaS, which turns me off completely, or its just a bland title (im looking at Watch dogs and Assassins Creed) I don't think are fun to play.

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          EA Activision & Ubisoft could all go out of business right now and it would make zero difference to me it seems gaming has evolved into this money grabbing crap you own nothing and pay for everything assuming it actually works. Wonder when the tipping point will appear when gamers eventually have enough of this crap, amazing how far people put up with this.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
            And I read the same for Resident Evil 7. Think there is a difference from not selling as well as hoped in the 1st year to being a flop.
            There will be an element of unrealistic publisher expectations, however the amount of profit in relation to costs/budget a game returns is vital in determining its success. Unfortunately all this info is hidden from us, other than small tidbits, but if analysts and the company who made it are saying it was very short of targets then it probably isn't unfair to label it a flop.

            Also The Division was Ubisoft's most successful game ever and I'd argue any sequel should have built upon that. And as a GaaS any miss in sales means far less recurrent spending within the game. Something Ubisoft have stated and have significantly decreases revenue expectations as a result.

            Personally I think there are numerous reasons for it failing, but not limited to: the problems with the first game never really being addressed, the abandoning of the first game so quickly, how quickly the sequel appeared, the lack of connection to the first game, being a derivative 1.5 sequel rather than anything more evolutionary, the terrible endgame and the more aggressive business model.

            I also agree with others in this thread that the Ubification of all these games into the same thing isn't helping.

            Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
            Share prices go up and down even if you're Nintendo. I think its just a lot of PR speak for a game not quite read and where next spring it starting to look overcrowed with games again and where Spring is now the new Christmas for games releases
            25% value wiped off a company is normal?!?

            Games are not going to change massively being delayed by a few months. Although there was probably every chance of individual titles slipping.

            If you believe Ubisoft delaying games into next fiscal year the minute they effectively announce a profit warning is just to 'improve them'. Then I suggest you took the blue pill from Morpheus...

            Comment


              Originally posted by Digfox View Post
              There will be an element of unrealistic publisher expectations, however the amount of profit in relation to costs/budget a game returns is vital in determining its success.
              I think a lot of it was The Division was a huge seller early in, given so many more consoles had been sold between then and Division II coming out, Ubisoft making Part II bigger Ubi thought sales would be so much higher as a result. I don't see The Division II as a loss-maker myself and get very bored for reading the drivel on ResetEra Or in RE 7 case (NEOGaf) that because a game doesn't meet sales expectations, that's its a huge flop and lost millions

              25% value wiped off a company is normal?!?
              Its the stock market. You can have a corp that's never posted a profit and millions in debt announce it's added so many more subscribers or expanded to a new Market and see its share price go up. Apple announces its sales are down by less than 1% and see billions wiped off its share price

              I can't work it all out myself.

              If you believe Ubisoft delaying games into next fiscal year the minute they effectively announce a profit warning is just to 'improve them'
              I don't. I think it more to do with so many games getting delayed and pushed back to spring next year, its a very crowed window to release a game. Spring is like the new Christmas, for loads of games released these days. Though I will accept the poor reception of Ghost Recon Breakpoint and issues over its transactions has maybe meant, a major rethink with plans for the new Rainbow Six game.

              Still, I also remember people saying Siege was a flop and a sales disaster. only for it to sell millions and be hugely popular online
              Last edited by Team Andromeda; 25-10-2019, 10:08.

              Comment


                Originally posted by importaku View Post
                EA Activision & Ubisoft could all go out of business right now and it would make zero difference to me it seems gaming has evolved into this money grabbing crap you own nothing and pay for everything assuming it actually works. Wonder when the tipping point will appear when gamers eventually have enough of this crap, amazing how far people put up with this.
                The problem is that if you grew up in the last decade, this is the new normal.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by importaku View Post
                  EA Activision & Ubisoft could all go out of business right now and it would make zero difference to me it seems gaming has evolved into this money grabbing crap you own nothing and pay for everything assuming it actually works. Wonder when the tipping point will appear when gamers eventually have enough of this crap, amazing how far people put up with this.
                  I'm calling it now - this will be the cause of a new videogame "crash" either by people getting fed up of being gouged or new legislation (probably badly thought out) after politicians keep getting letters about someone's kid spending a grand on virtual hats.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                    The problem is that if you grew up in the last decade, this is the new normal.
                    So back in the old days Gaming corps were out there to make loads of money and also ripp off their base? How many times have Ubi or EA been fined for price-fixing? I think SEGA been done once and the wonderful Nintendo been found guilty twice for price-fixing

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                      Originally posted by Hirst View Post
                      I) after politicians keep getting letters about someone's kid spending a grand on virtual hats.

                      No doubt from the same Mum and Dad blaming Pepsi & Cadbury for their kid being fat and having no teeth; nothing to do with the Parent mind. It's up the Gaming and food corps to look after and bring up one's child LOL

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                        The signs are already there so it'd be foolish of Ubisoft to continue to ignore them. Most of the biggest games this year have been a return to linear SP affairs, gamers are increasingly over being rinsed for non-premier experiences. It's probably telling that all this gen has gone by without FIFA making any real moves to become GAAS based even though the notion of annual sequels to a football game remains stupid.

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                          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                          I don't see The Division II as a loss-maker myself
                          Just to be clear I don't think TD2 lost money, but I think it has done badly enough to impact their plans on sequels and support of the game. They have alluded to some of that in their financial commentary.

                          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                          Its the stock market.
                          No, I think Ubisoft has decided to write-off this year and have revised financial results expectations accordingly. The reaction from the market is obviously very negative.

                          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                          Still, I also remember people saying Siege was a flop and a sales disaster. only for it to sell millions and be hugely popular online
                          I do think some of this is confusing the many issues the game had at launch with financial performance. This often happens. Also I think RB6 Siege had a different sales profile. RB6 Siege is absolutely the sort of game Ubisoft should be making. It's unique, has its own identity, has the life cycle of a true GaaS (albeit still too much monitisation for my liking) and is a really good (PVP) game.

                          Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                          So back in the old days Gaming corps were out there to make loads of money and also ripp off their base? How many times have Ubi or EA been fined for price-fixing? I think SEGA been done once and the wonderful Nintendo been found guilty twice for price-fixing
                          Companies always look to make a profit but there are younger players who are more open to the more aggressive monitisation we experience now. Business models didn't impact a game's design in the same way back then.

                          Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                          The signs are already there so it'd be foolish of Ubisoft to continue to ignore them.
                          100% agree. It's laughable to see Yves Guillemot try and explain that their games don't have pay-2-win when trying to address shareholder concerns over monitisation. I don't for a minute believe Ubisoft will change and that the recent trend of being more aggressive with monitiasion in their games will simply continue. I hope I'm wrong.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                            The problem is that if you grew up in the last decade, this is the new normal.
                            You’re probably right, when money grubbing is this blatant and already infested everywhere it does seem to make it look normal. Gaming is evolving into something i’ll never get on board with I’m not prepared to pay for any game as a service. The more they push the less I’ll buy it’s as simple as that. Thankfully the stuff I play is mostly stuff they don't target as I don’t play mp stuff or online. Wouldn’t be surprised at all though if this caused another crash.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Digfox View Post

                              Companies always look to make a profit but there are younger players who are more open to the more aggressive monitisation we experience now. Business models didn't impact a game's design in the same way back then.
                              Agreed, but there are now more options on the Dash for parents to stop this. The new update for the XBox has the of the best family options I've ever seen. I think smart phones are a far bigger issue myself.

                              Just to be clear I don't think TD2 lost money, but I think it has done badly enough to impact their plans on sequels and support of the game
                              I agree it may alter some ideas and plans. I don't think the game sold poor and highly expect Ubi is already working on a sequel.

                              Also I think RB6 Siege had a different sales profile. RB6
                              This was a game that was slaughtered on the likes of Neo for the lack of a single player focus and I seem to remember some saying it was a flop at lauch. Its since go on to sell great and be hughly popular online. Some times a game can be a slow burner.


                              And just to be clear I don't support Play to Win Loot Boxes ECT and can honesly say on the Catholic bible. I've never paid for such content and also don't like Free to play games at all.

                              Comment


                                The thing with GAAS as a model as well is that as well as trying to constantly tap a limited audience that has limited funds and limited time, you can't ever risk a sense of short changing them.

                                There's no shortage of people shelling out MTX money on Fortnite but the game doesn't require an up front cost, Ubisoft - via its various editions - charge £40 through £100 on average and then also expect the user to spend all their time shelling out for more. It's an easy trend to see fall apart because developers and publishers do it too often. They see a successful title and aim to ape it forgetting that everyone else is attempting the same thing but every time the market can only sustain 2-3 of them at once at most so the casualty list grows.

                                Generation transitions are difficult at the best of times, I can imagine Ubisoft is going to struggle in the coming years. BG&E2 will be a sad event as well, I'm fully expecting it to bomb hard and kill off the last of Ubisoft's will to make the kind of more interesting titles it used to make.

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