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    Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
    No, not really. I struggle to type in anything, particularly the numbers parts, so it all kind of falls apart when I tried some of the so-called ‘beginners’ books.
    What do you mean by numbers parts?

    if you enter

    print("hello world")

    ...does that work for you?

    That is absolutely the simplest thing you could ever write. There is no more beginner than that.

    Your book will have examples of how to add a line to that program, then another line and so on.

    Once you have a few lines, set yourself challenges to alter it a bit further (keep it simple!).

    Once it's all making sense, go to the next part.

    That is how to learn programming.

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      I'm no programmer, but I've done bits of learning. Udemy mainly. Someone told me one of the best approaches is to do a little project that interests or is useful to you. I agree with this. For me it was to program a simple midi over USB sequencer on an arduino device. I think it won't be as dry if you work this way. There will probably tutorials out there already for you to follow. Maybe do this alongside the general tutorials.

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        I agree.

        It's easier to deal with the jargon and abstract concepts if they're related to something interesting. Making a database for a car dealership in Wyoming is boring if you're not into that stuff.

        There used to be a sample of Head First C# Fourth Edition on the publisher's website but I can't find it on there any more.

        Google Books has a sample of it which is 300-odd pages.

        [MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION], give that a try and see how you feel. It has lots of pictures and jokes to help the lessons sink in. C# is not as easy to begin with as Python, but I had more fun dragging buttons onto a window and making them do stuff than looking at a black square with "Enter your name:" on it!

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          Get a retro computer, they are great for learning to code.

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            Originally posted by vanpeebles View Post
            Get a retro computer, they are great for learning to code.
            Basic for the win

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              Originally posted by vanpeebles View Post
              Get a retro computer, they are great for learning to code.
              Maybe a good idea. Get a C64, boots right into basic and you just start typing!

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                Best basic would be a BBC or QL

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                  Get a retro computer... for programming??? Madness!

                  Why not just download an emulator? There are even online ones that run inside a browser.

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                    Because to a new user, an emulator can be very abstract. You can't beat having a manual and the proper machine in front of you.

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                      Has no one suggested QBasic? I discovered it in the 1990s and coded my first game, a text adventure, in a few minutes (INPUT statement, followed by IF, ELSE IF branching). From there I played around with the built in help menus, making simple action games:
                      It could be said that at one time in film history, two contrasting figures were Orson Welles and Ed Wood. Therefore it can also be said tha...


                      QBasic is nice because the original is free (MS gave it away with all computers), and can be emulated in DOSbox. You can just copy and paste stuff from the built in help menu, tweak it, and slowly get the hang of it. A friend at school was doing the same and let me copy how he coded direct keyboard inputs for action games.

                      And once you've gotten the hang of it, you can upgrade to QB64, which is freeware, runs on modern OS, and allows you to compile your games for modern Windows.

                      Someone even made a commercial game in QB for Steam which did quite well.

                      It's not great, but if you want the raw sensation of "I made a game on my own!" it's pretty good.

                      Here's some crap I made earlier:


                      Try the Ur-Quan Masters game, it's really good! Source code should be in everything too.

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                        Originally posted by vanpeebles View Post
                        Best basic would be a BBC or QL
                        True. I bet you could pick up an electron for £70

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                          Originally posted by Brad View Post
                          True. I bet you could pick up an electron for £70
                          Cambridge Z88!

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                            Originally posted by vanpeebles View Post
                            Cambridge Z88!
                            It must have killed Clive to put BBC basic in one of his computers. They are cool little machines though, and not expensive to pick up either.

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                              Sorry, completely disagree with getting retro computers for learning to program (or emulators of retro computers).

                              The BASIC languages of these machines are based on ancient long abandoned paradigms that are simply not used in modern programming which is mostly object based patterns, even when using noddy stuff like Javascript. Unless all you're ever going to do is loop hello world, it'll be a waste of effort.

                              If the idea is to learn concepts, then you'd glean far more from working with Scratch.

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                                The old machines still cover the basics of conditions, control flow, iteration, input, output and maths. Those things are still alive and very much needed in modern languages. You just don’t have the burden of OO, template meta programming, generics etc.and there’s plenty of time to learn that stuff once you’ve got the basics down.

                                I get what you’re saying though. In a way it’s like wanting to become an electrician and starting by fixing old CRTs! My view may be tainted because that’s how I learnt and it worked out just fine for me!

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