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PAL PlayStation RGB: Do NTSC games run properly?

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    PAL PlayStation RGB: Do NTSC games run properly?

    Does a PAL PlayStation using RGB Scart run NTSC games at the correct speed? I've heard things about the timing being a bit different, but is this only when using Composite & S-Video?

    I've never noticed anything weird when using a modded PAL machine. I got my machine out last night and tested it with a few action games and didn't notice any anomalies. It all looked and felt rock solid.

    But now it's bugging me that NTSC games may not be running 100% correctly.

    Also, any advice on which PlayStation model/series is best(for any reasons) would be appreciated.

    #2
    I don’t think a modded PAL ps1 outputs true 60hz. It’s close enough (59.something). Some of my pvms are a bit picky when fed a modded pal signal, but you shouldn’t really notice it with a consumer set.

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      #3
      From VGP

      NTSC PS outputs video at 59.94 Hz whilst a modded PAL PS does around 59.20. The oscillators in PAL systems were designed for PAL video timings, so they may not work to spec when forced to do NTSC video timings. A mod chip on its own cannot correct this.

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        #4
        Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
        NTSC PS outputs video at 59.94 Hz whilst a modded PAL PS does around 59.20. The oscillators in PAL systems were designed for PAL video timings, so they may not work to spec when forced to do NTSC video timings.
        Yeah, that's what I wanted to know about. People say you can get issues with the oscillator in PAL machines when running NTSC games. I tested Harmful Park and Gunners Heaven with my PSone slim and didn't notice any of the potential issues people say can appear. The image looks great and there isn't any tearing or lines etc...

        Further reading suggests that people who play rhythm or fighting games with precise timing may notice a slight problem. That's not something I am worried about.

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          #5
          Interesting.

          What about Debug consoles?

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            #6
            Originally posted by DaytimeDreamer View Post
            What about Debug consoles?
            I haven't read anything about Debug machines.

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              #7
              So, I tested the PAL PS1 with NTSC games into my LCD, CRT, Framemeister and OSSC.

              The LCD displays the correct aspect ratio and the image looks very good.

              The CRT displays everything perfectly -- looks stunning.

              The OSSC does a great job in every respect.

              The Framemeister doesn't like it: squashed image with grey borders; brightness far too high; and the scanlines aren't uniform even in 720p. I read that this is normal, so nothing to do with Scart cables. I tested two cables.

              It's a shame that the FM doesn't like the signal, but I can adjust things to make it look OK. At least the OSSC does a splendid job.
              Last edited by Leon Retro; 05-05-2019, 11:14.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                So, I tested the PAL PS1 with NTSC games into my LCD, CRT, Framemeister and OSSC.

                The LCD displays the correct aspect ratio and the image looks very good.

                The CRT displays everything perfectly -- looks stunning.

                The OSSC does a great job in every respect.

                The Framemeister doesn't like it: squashed image with grey borders; brightness far too high; and the scanlines aren't uniform even in 720p. I read that this is normal, so nothing to do with Scart cables. I tested two cables.

                It's a shame that the FM doesn't like the signal, but I can adjust things to make it look OK. At least the OSSC does a splendid job.
                Strange - I never had a problem running a pal modded console with a framemeister....

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by DaytimeDreamer View Post
                  Interesting.

                  What about Debug consoles?
                  They’re no different. Most people seem perfectly happy with out of spec NTSC or PAL60 though...

                  For the PS1 the video encoder on SCPH-700X can only do PAL or NTSC on the respective region of console. So for example a PAL PSone can only play NTSC games at PAL60. This is why I use a true NTSC SCPH-5501 with modchip. Dual oscillator is a thing at least for the earlier machines if you wanted both PAL and NTSC in spec.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
                    Strange - I never had a problem running a pal modded console with a framemeister....
                    I'm using a PSOne slim, so maybe your PAL PlayStation outputs a different signal. I did read a thread where someone was asking why a PlayStation has loads of issues with the Framemeister -- and someone said it doesn't like the clock frequency used by PAL machines running NTSC games.

                    Using this setup with an XRGB-mini will cause stuttering, incorrect scanline alignment and for some reason a brighter image.]
                    That's what I'm getting, except for the stuttering. The brightness is way too high -- and also the 4:3 frame is squished. The scanlines also have a few problems.

                    With the OSSC -- in x2, x3, and x4 modes -- the image is perfect. So the OSSC doesn't mind the strange clock frequency.

                    Funny thing is -- my Sony LCD television is perfectly happy with the output and displays a rock solid image in the proper aspect ratio. My Sony Trinitron CRT also has zero issues with it.

                    Originally posted by speedlolita View Post

                    For the PS1 the video encoder on SCPH-700X can only do PAL or NTSC on the respective region of console.
                    Will an earlier model PAL machine run NTSC games at the proper clock frequency? Or do all PAL machines suffer from this problem with NTSC games?

                    I have an original model PlayStation in storage that I bought in 1998. I don't know what model it is though, but it was probably manufactured in 1998. It's also modded.

                    My original PlayStation went wrong after a couple of years, but I might have it somewhere. It was a 1995 model.

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                      #11
                      Nah it was a ps one I used - infact I had used two of them that worked perfectly with it. Maybe try a different mod or check your scart lead? You can output sync on luma as well as a csync mod which really tidys up fine detail; (but you won’t be able to use light gun games with the csync mod).

                      Too much brightness in your image sounds like incorrect voltage / lack of resistors in the scart head. Speedy should be able to add some input

                      Be careful Leon, you are about to go down an OCD rabbit hole here......

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                        #12
                        If the brightness is too high it sounds like you’re using a PS2 SCART lead. PS1 requires 220uF caps on the RGB lines.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
                          Nah it was a ps one I used - infact I had used two of them that worked perfectly with it. Maybe try a different mod or check your scart lead? You can output sync on luma as well as a csync mod which really tidys up fine detail; (but you won’t be able to use light gun games with the csync mod).
                          Originally posted by speedlolita View Post
                          If the brightness is too high it sounds like you’re using a PS2 SCART lead. PS1 requires 220uF caps on the RGB lines.
                          The brightness is perfect when the PS1 is connected directly into the LCD, CRT, and also with the OSSC. In fact -- the image looks really clear and sharp.

                          I have a normal top quality Scart cable from the PS1 era -- and a modified cable that has a chip in it for 'Csync'.

                          This one: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/...ite-sync-CSYNC

                          But when I plug either cable into the Framemeister, I get the severe problems that have been recognised by other people. It's definitely a known issue because of the weird clock frequency of the PAL PS1 running NTSC games..




                          Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
                          Be careful Leon, you are about to go down an OCD rabbit hole here......
                          Pre-HD machines offer a world of nightmares for people with even the slightest OCD. It's crazy how all sorts of machines have one issue or another.

                          I've gradually had mods done to fix all sorts of issues with the machines in my collection, so now I might try and fix this problem with the PS1 and the Framemeister. Maybe I need a 'luma sync' scart cable?

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                            #14
                            If that’s the case regarding brightness then the FM appears to be at fault.

                            Luma sync won’t fix the frequency issue. You could get the “dual frequency oscillator” mod done to your PlayStation if you require correct PAL timing in addition to NTSC or simply have the PAL crystal swapped to an NTSC one.

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                              #15
                              You sure the A/D level isn’t too high on the FM?

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