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    My current firm would take on a programmer who had no qualifications, if they had some other way to prove they knew what they were doing e.g. an open source project on github.

    I used to teach C++ at the local college and the only students who would ever complete the course were the ones who could basically already program. They were largely there for the qualification and to learn better software engineering practices.

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      Originally posted by Brad View Post
      My current firm would take on a programmer who had no qualifications, if they had some other way to prove they knew what they were doing e.g. an open source project on github.

      I used to teach C++ at the local college and the only students who would ever complete the course were the ones who could basically already program. They were largely there for the qualification and to learn better software engineering practices.
      Exactly, the drop out rate is massive.

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        Yeah, when I started my BTEC back in the late 80s, the head tutor in his introduction said "to anybody who thinks this about video games or playing video games, they should leave now" and to my surprise, about 4 people looked around, got up and left and were never seen again!!

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          Originally posted by gunrock View Post
          Yeah, when I started my BTEC back in the late 80s, the head tutor in his introduction said "to anybody who thinks this about video games or playing video games, they should leave now" and to my surprise, about 4 people looked around, got up and left and were never seen again!!
          And their names were Phil Spencer, Cliff Blezinsky, Hideki Kamiya and Shigeru ‘Shiggsy’ Miyamoto

          Comment


            Originally posted by Brad View Post
            My current firm would take on a programmer who had no qualifications, if they had some other way to prove they knew what they were doing e.g. an open source project on github.

            I used to teach C++ at the local college and the only students who would ever complete the course were the ones who could basically already program. They were largely there for the qualification and to learn better software engineering practices.
            Well, how am I meant to get the qualifications without being able to program because I can’t afford a course with taught instruction, yet from the sounds of things would fail a course (were I able to afford one) because I can’t already program? I don’t understand how or where I’m meant to get into all of this, given there’s no funding for education for people in my position.

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              Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
              Well, how am I meant to get the qualifications without being able to program because I can’t afford a course with taught instruction, yet from the sounds of things would fail a course (were I able to afford one) because I can’t already program? I don’t understand how or where I’m meant to get into all of this, given there’s no funding for education for people in my position.
              It doesn't sound like any amount of education would work. From everything you've posted, it just doesn't seem like you have any aptitude for it, and that's really important. Even in a class environment you'll be expected to experiment and pick stuff up on your own. A teacher wouldn't be able to dedicate the amount of time to you that you seem to need. Perhaps one-on-one tutoring could work but it would be an uphill struggle. Again, based on everything you've posted so far.

              It sucks because programming can earn you good money, but it just isn't something everyone is suited to.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cepp View Post
                It doesn't sound like any amount of education would work. From everything you've posted, it just doesn't seem like you have any aptitude for it, and that's really important. Even in a class environment you'll be expected to experiment and pick stuff up on your own. A teacher wouldn't be able to dedicate the amount of time to you that you seem to need. Perhaps one-on-one tutoring could work but it would be an uphill struggle. Again, based on everything you've posted so far.

                It sucks because programming can earn you good money, but it just isn't something everyone is suited to.
                How do you know for certain that I don’t have an “aptitude” for it if I can’t afford a course in the subject and have never been able to work in the field? I might be excellent at this given the basic opportunities to learn it were actually available.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                  Well, how am I meant to get the qualifications without being able to program because I can’t afford a course with taught instruction, yet from the sounds of things would fail a course (were I able to afford one) because I can’t already program? I don’t understand how or where I’m meant to get into all of this, given there’s no funding for education for people in my position.
                  I didn’t get my point across properly and for that I apologise. What I was getting at was that the people on the course who would actually complete it and get jobs in the industry had already worked out how to program, without any formal education in the subject at all. Just because they were really interested in just at a hobby level even. My opinion is you have to absolutely love programming computers, want to do it, even for no money or any reward whatsoever. If you end up getting a job doing it that’s a bonus. I program for fun even now, even though I’m paid to code all day and have been for 30 years.

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                    Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                    How do you know for certain that I don’t have an “aptitude” for it if I can’t afford a course in the subject and have never been able to work in the field?
                    I didn't say I knew for certain, but based off what you've posted in this thread it seems likely. That tutorial posted earlier really did break things down about as far as you can go.

                    Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                    I might be excellent at this given the basic opportunities to learn it were actually available.
                    Please report back if you ever get that chance.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Brad View Post
                      I didn’t get my point across properly and for that I apologise. What I was getting at was that the people on the course who would actually complete it and get jobs in the industry had already worked out how to program, without any formal education in the subject at all. Just because they were really interested in just at a hobby level even. My opinion is you have to absolutely love programming computers, want to do it, even for no money or any reward whatsoever. If you end up getting a job doing it that’s a bonus. I program for fun even now, even though I’m paid to code all day and have been for 30 years.
                      So basically because I wasn’t allowed to do A-levels etc in this a long time ago, I’m too far behind to ever learn it properly?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                        So basically because I wasn’t allowed to do A-levels etc in this a long time ago, I’m too far behind to ever learn it properly?
                        I wasn’t allowed to do O Levels in programming in the 80s. It didn’t matter because I was so interested in it that I read the guides that came with my vic-20, then got books out the library and taught myself how to program.

                        How long have you been interested in learning to program?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                          How do you know for certain that I don’t have an “aptitude” for it if I can’t afford a course in the subject and have never been able to work in the field? I might be excellent at this given the basic opportunities to learn it were actually available.
                          Consider a young boy living in a bad neighborhood who goes to a severely underfunded school. He's bright, but he just can't keep up with all the homework because he has to do cooking/cleaning/laundry/etc. His mother is working two jobs to support them and comes home exhausted every night.

                          All this boy has for fun is an old computer his deadbeat dad left behind after running off with that skank. He plays games on it, but he really wants to know what's going on inside. He's scared to open the computer in case he breaks it because then he'll have no computer at all. There's a blinking cursor that beckons him "come hither and sup from my teat, for I shall bequeath you knowledge". He's bright, but falling behind in English class so he doesn't understand those long words.

                          Every day he walks past the after-school computer class but can't join because that microwave dinner won't cook itself. Not yet, anyway. But if he just had the chance to take a lesson, he could practice on his computer at home. One day, he'll program that microwave so that the dinner WILL cook itself.

                          On the way home, he spots a dirty book under a bush. Thankfully, it's not one of those smutty magazines dad left behind. It's a programming book. It looks like someone threw it away. They won't mind if he takes it.

                          He gets home, ignores the dirty dishes for now and turns on the computer. The blinking cursor fades into view.

                          The boy opens the book and starts reading.

                          After a while, he puts the book down, places his hands on the keyboard and begins to type:

                          10 PRINT "Hello World"*



                          You are not that boy.

                          Whether you have an aptitude for programming or not, you do seem to be putting immense pressure on yourself to somehow just "get" it and bloody well enjoy it.

                          Just don't worry about programming for now. See where life takes you. Something might come up. You're taking a few steps and then complaining, even with the entire internet at your disposal and advice from seasoned programmers like Brad and fledgling programmers like myself. There's so much more to IT than programming. Have you considered looking into networking? Your username is Protocol Penguin, for Pete's sake! I'm looking into networking myself. In fact, I'm going to make a thread about it now...

                          * it's an Amstrad CPC 464

                          Comment


                            Who was the boy?! Who was the boy?!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by randombs View Post
                              Consider a young boy living in a bad neighborhood who goes to a severely underfunded school. He's bright, but he just can't keep up with all the homework because he has to do cooking/cleaning/laundry/etc. His mother is working two jobs to support them and comes home exhausted every night.

                              All this boy has for fun is an old computer his deadbeat dad left behind after running off with that skank. He plays games on it, but he really wants to know what's going on inside. He's scared to open the computer in case he breaks it because then he'll have no computer at all. There's a blinking cursor that beckons him "come hither and sup from my teat, for I shall bequeath you knowledge". He's bright, but falling behind in English class so he doesn't understand those long words.

                              Every day he walks past the after-school computer class but can't join because that microwave dinner won't cook itself. Not yet, anyway. But if he just had the chance to take a lesson, he could practice on his computer at home. One day, he'll program that microwave so that the dinner WILL cook itself.

                              On the way home, he spots a dirty book under a bush. Thankfully, it's not one of those smutty magazines dad left behind. It's a programming book. It looks like someone threw it away. They won't mind if he takes it.

                              He gets home, ignores the dirty dishes for now and turns on the computer. The blinking cursor fades into view.

                              The boy opens the book and starts reading.

                              After a while, he puts the book down, places his hands on the keyboard and begins to type:

                              10 PRINT "Hello World"*



                              You are not that boy.

                              Whether you have an aptitude for programming or not, you do seem to be putting immense pressure on yourself to somehow just "get" it and bloody well enjoy it.

                              Just don't worry about programming for now. See where life takes you. Something might come up. You're taking a few steps and then complaining, even with the entire internet at your disposal and advice from seasoned programmers like Brad and fledgling programmers like myself. There's so much more to IT than programming. Have you considered looking into networking? Your username is Protocol Penguin, for Pete's sake! I'm looking into networking myself. In fact, I'm going to make a thread about it now...

                              * it's an Amstrad CPC 464
                              Great post!

                              Protocol, we have all tried to help in here. To the poiint where people have called you a troll for continuing to return with nothing!

                              Brad's point about having some knowledge before starting a class is key. It shows that you want to learn regardless of a course. If you start a course with no knowledge you are behind on day 1. I teach this to 13 year olds and that is even true for them. Even if they have only made scratch games, I can parlay that understanding into python code to improve their understanding.



                              Here is another resource I use in school:

                              W3Schools offers free online tutorials, references and exercises in all the major languages of the web. Covering popular subjects like HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Python, SQL, Java, and many, many more.


                              Have a read of that and complete the exercises. You don't even need a compiler for these as they are done in the browser.

                              If you want to try writing your own code, please download idle and write your first program - just a simple print("Hello World") and get back to us.

                              Comment


                                bwahaha!

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