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    I have ordered the Haynes manual so will post my impressions in a few days.

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      I found myself drifting off during the online video courses I tried(PluralSight, Channel9) so decided to try learning old-skool. I got this book recently and am on the third chapter.



      Instead of beginning with the theory and explanations, the first thing you do is program a little arcade game(trying to drag a human into a portal while dodging aliens). It's humorous in a good way

      The book involves making Universal Windows Programs as well as the older Windows forms. That's handy for me because the programs my manager makes are all using forms so I can understand them better now.

      This third edition is five years old but the fourth edition keeps getting pushed back(initially due out later this year, then moved back to mid-2019, now showing as 2020!). Also, I put it on expenses.

      It's nice having a physical book to flick through but recently I've just been reading the PDF on my second monitor.

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        That was part of a Humble Book Bundle the other day...and I forgot to buy it.

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          The Humble Bundle books bundles have been fairly good for programming stuff recently. I picked up the Unity related stuff which although not being the most recent editions, still represent decent value given the cost of these things normally.

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            Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
            Any opinions on whether this book is worth a try for beginners?

            https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coding-Begi.../dp/1840786426
            Did actually try this in the end as the local library had it, coincidentally enough. It was free to try...

            Didn’t feel I learnt anything. Was like a data entry exercise, copying stuff out, and the text, input exactly into the computer as instructed, didn’t work on many occasions.

            I think a lot of these “beginners” books are genuinely aimed at people who can already programme, to retrain them in the different languages. That’s how it feels, anyway.

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              I found that with a few online courses, too.

              I’d only finished the first few chapters of that book I bought before deciding to just make programs. I’ve made a few since then - mostly small ones that make Excel reports and email them - but I made a clocking in/out program for our contractors who tap their security badges on a card reader and now I’m working on a big printing project with my manager.

              I’ve jumped the gun despite not wanting to - and it will bite me in the butt at some point - but I’m loving my work now so I don’t mind.

              I’m creating little programs to make work easier for people and it’s a great feeling seeing the clocking program running on a tablet every morning.

              Still got the John Hammond vibes

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                Originally posted by randombs View Post
                I found that with a few online courses, too.

                I’d only finished the first few chapters of that book I bought before deciding to just make programs. I’ve made a few since then - mostly small ones that make Excel reports and email them - but I made a clocking in/out program for our contractors who tap their security badges on a card reader and now I’m working on a big printing project with my manager.

                I’ve jumped the gun despite not wanting to - and it will bite me in the butt at some point - but I’m loving my work now so I don’t mind.

                I’m creating little programs to make work easier for people and it’s a great feeling seeing the clocking program running on a tablet every morning.

                Still got the John Hammond vibes
                I would say this is exactly the right way to learn. Don't sit and work through a book page by page, just copy out a few programs and then start to change them. If you're not sure how to do a certain thing, look up that one thing, then go back to coding.

                Later down the line you'll benefit from learning some best practises, but don't worry about that until you have a fairly solid grasp.

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                  Cheers. I'm trying to be careful and avoid obvious bad habits/lazy shortcuts. Things like formatting my code nicely, writing decent comments and naming variables according to conventions. Basically, when I'm writing code I imagine how I'd feel if I(or, more importantly, someone else) were to read it later on. I don't abbreviate things willy-nilly.

                  It's funny to think I spent my life not programming(other than typing up stuff from the back of Amstrad Action when I was really young) but now I'm actually doing it, it feels right. Keeping the network running and all that jazz is fun in its own way, but I love seeing someone's face light up when I tell them I could make a program to automate some annoying thing they have to do.

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                    [MENTION=2625]randombs[/MENTION] You’re doing all the right stuff, variable naming and comments. If you find you’re putting a lot of comments inside function bodies though you might want to if they’re necessary and if they are why? I reckon code should mostly be self documenting. Glad to see The programming thread see some life anyway!

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                      Originally posted by randombs View Post
                      Cheers. I'm trying to be careful and avoid obvious bad habits/lazy shortcuts. Things like formatting my code nicely, writing decent comments and naming variables according to conventions. Basically, when I'm writing code I imagine how I'd feel if I(or, more importantly, someone else) were to read it later on. I don't abbreviate things willy-nilly.

                      It's funny to think I spent my life not programming(other than typing up stuff from the back of Amstrad Action when I was really young) but now I'm actually doing it, it feels right. Keeping the network running and all that jazz is fun in its own way, but I love seeing someone's face light up when I tell them I could make a program to automate some annoying thing they have to do.
                      Have you been formally taught programming at university before you started making stuff (even if years ago)?

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                        Originally posted by randombs View Post
                        It's funny to think I spent my life not programming(other than typing up stuff from the back of Amstrad Action when I was really young)
                        That was the only reason we bought Amstrad Action! Mum and me spending Sunday afternoons trying to type up a program only for it to give us the fatal "Syntax Error" and not run.

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                          [MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION] Hi!

                          I have been to Uni to get a degree in software engineering but I was programming way before then. Back then there was no internet so no online courses, tutors or any way to ask questions online; just whatever books you managed to get hold of as a child with limited funds. If you're struggling this much then it might just be something you aren't cut out to do. I was always pretty poor at maths. It didn't seem to matter what I did I was always behind the rest of the class and left school with a C at O level. It's just something I'm not good at. Same goes for learning foreign languages actually. Anyway, I certainly don't want to dissuade you, I'm just saying it's not for everyone ( I used to teach C++ as well and I had some students [about half of them in fact] that were quite clearly never going to be able to become programmers ) and if you can;t get the hang of it with the wealth of information only a mouse click away these days then maybe it's just not for you?

                          oh, I'm also terrible at playing the guitar, despite trying for about 30 years with numerous books, that Rocksmith game and even the odd teacher or two over the years! I still have a go now and then because I enjoy it but I've resigned myself to never being good at it.

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                            I refuse to be discouraged. If I gave up at “you’re not capable”, I wouldn’t have gotten my school qualifications or my degree, or anything else I’ve tried. I realise being taught this at college or university gives a huge advantage, but I don’t have that luxury so I will have to do what I can.

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                              Good!

                              Ok, so I was trying to get across that university and or formal training is totally not necessary. Most of the people I've worked with learned to program long before they went to Uni (some never went at all). All I can advise is the way I went about it which was I saw computers doing cool stuff, thought I want to be able to make them do that, got a computer and a couple of books, bought the magazines with the program listings (like downloading example code today except you had to type it all in, which meant you read it as you went along which probably aids learning) and typed those in. Often they didn't work, either because I typed it in wrong or the magazine messed up. Either way I set about finding the problem and fixed it til it worked. Then I'd decide that i wanted it to do something slightly different and then set about changing to code to achieve that. Then some other stuff happened and then I was nearly 50 and still doing it, and still learning, and still enjoying it!

                              Good luck!

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                                Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                                I realise being taught this at college or university gives a huge advantage
                                Just echoing what Brad said, but I already learnt quite a lot before I started college/uni with just the C64 user manual and a bunch of magazines. I don't really feel an education was a huge benefit, beyond having the time to learn without juggling a full time job. Because it was for beginners, a lot of what I learnt in education was stuff I already knew anyway.

                                Just to expand on what I said above on not just working through an entire book, start off with a simple

                                print "hello world"

                                How do you make that line appear 10 times?
                                How do you let the user set their name, instead of "world"
                                How do you let the user decide how many times the line is shown?
                                How do you change the colour of the text?
                                How do you let the user change the colour of the text?
                                How do you ask the user if they want to change the text and colour?
                                How do you change the position where the text shows?
                                Can you create a menu system that lets them change these parameters?
                                Instead of text, can you build a simple calculator that will add/subtract two numbers?
                                How can the user move the answer around using the keyboard?
                                How can you show a maze on screen and let the user move something around that?

                                This is how I learnt, not working through a book page by page.

                                At first you don't even need to know the best way to do something, just try to figure out how to do it yourself.

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