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All the World's Wrongs: Games At Fault!

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    Asura, part of that problem is lack of thought, knee jerk reactions, not actually reading what’s available. We don’t like it when the media does it. So far in this thread, most have read what has been reported. But not all. The least we can do before jumping in is make an effort to know what we are talking about and, if we don’t, to ask. So when someone assumes games are being blamed (they aren’t) and cites a very specific example of games being blamed now that, as far as I can find out, doesn’t exist, yeah I’m going to get a bit contrarian about that. We owe it to ourselves and our hobby to do better.

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      The link with games in this case is fundamentally different to the (often very tenuous or completely made up) links seen in other cases, like the Columbine killers planning their attack with the Doom level editor - they didn’t - or the guy in Norway being inspired by CoD.

      It’s not that this guy decided he’d do these things because of games, it’s games and nerdy communities more broadly acting as a place of foment for the type of violent, me-against-the-world extremism the killer showed.

      If you read his manifesto, he references Spyro 3 and includes forum-style memes. It’s not games that are the problem, it’s the community around them. As far as I know the gaming fan base is the only hobby community to issue social media death threats on a completely routine basis.

      Honestly a lot of the gaming community does just suck. It’s pretty sad.

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        Originally posted by wakka View Post
        As far as I know the gaming fan base is the only hobby community to issue social media death threats on a completely routine basis.
        https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...eremy-clarkson
        https://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...-Jeremy-Renner
        https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-death-threats

        Unfortunately I think that's completely incorrect.

        Death threats on Social Media for those in the public eye are the norm. The searches above where a few that took seconds to come up. There will be countless more. I think the laws and platforms themselves are not protecting people as they should be.

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          Appalling, isn’t it? But I do think the gaming community can be an especially toxic one, and the sooner we - the normal, non-toxic contingent of gaming fandom - can accept it, the better. Not saying you’re doing this Mgear, but IMO the knee jerk reaction that games are being unfairly blamed is not really constructive - and misses the point that it’s minority portions of fandoms and the often-adjacent toxic groups like incels that are the real problem.

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            Nice Post and its like Jack Thompson never try to blame video games not just in 'General' cases but also in 'specific' cases. At the the end of the day one can blame religion, media, but when someone got a a screw lose, there is not much one can do
            Last edited by Team Andromeda; 16-03-2019, 17:41.

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              Originally posted by wakka View Post
              Appalling, isn’t it? But I do think the gaming community can be an especially toxic one, and the sooner we - the normal, non-toxic contingent of gaming fandom - can accept it, the better. Not saying you’re doing this Mgear, but IMO the knee jerk reaction that games are being unfairly blamed is not really constructive - and misses the point that it’s minority portions of fandoms and the often-adjacent toxic groups like incels that are the real problem.
              I just haven't personally seen evidence to support it's happening more or less with gaming. The reality is that there will be common solutions, through tougher law and getting the social media platforms to recognise they need to do more. At the same time video gaming platforms and sites can do more to improve their side too.

              This conversation has come up before on here and I haven't changed my view. I think the 'toxicity' you talk of, spreads much further than gaming. I feel like it's a myth to suggest otherwise even if that's the popularised view from the likes of Kotaku etc.
              Last edited by Digfox; 16-03-2019, 18:18.

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                Can I just say that because of these shootings, New Zealand are moving to ban all automatic firearms. This makes me happy.

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                  Originally posted by wakka View Post
                  Appalling, isn’t it? But I do think the gaming community can be an especially toxic one, and the sooner we - the normal, non-toxic contingent of gaming fandom - can accept it, the better. Not saying you’re doing this Mgear, but IMO the knee jerk reaction that games are being unfairly blamed is not really constructive - and misses the point that it’s minority portions of fandoms and the often-adjacent toxic groups like incels that are the real problem.
                  I'm not wholly convinced about this.

                  Like I'm down with the idea there is a contingent of the gaming fandom who are part of those groups, and cause problems. I'm even willing to accept that it seems extremely visible. I'm just not certain it applies to gaming any more than any other media fandom. Part of me wonders if I feel it's so visible in gaming because it's a space in which I move.

                  People issue death threats to members of One Direction and stalk reality TV stars, but I don't notice that as much because I don't move in those spaces.

                  I'm not saying that makes it okay; of course it doesn't. I'd like gaming to be better. Just I think this is a holistic problem, one that I'm not certain directly springs from gaming as a medium.

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                    Originally posted by Asura View Post
                    I'm not wholly convinced about this.

                    Like I'm down with the idea there is a contingent of the gaming fandom who are part of those groups, and cause problems. I'm even willing to accept that it seems extremely visible. I'm just not certain it applies to gaming any more than any other media fandom. Part of me wonders if I feel it's so visible in gaming because it's a space in which I move.

                    People issue death threats to members of One Direction and stalk reality TV stars, but I don't notice that as much because I don't move in those spaces.

                    I'm not saying that makes it okay; of course it doesn't. I'd like gaming to be better. Just I think this is a holistic problem, one that I'm not certain directly springs from gaming as a medium.
                    You should be a MP

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                      Yeah, I don’t have any numbers or anything to back it up, it’s just my impression.

                      Definitely agree there are toxic groups outside gaming. But I don’t think that means it isn’t something that we, as gamers, shouldn’t be trying to address within our own community.

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                        Originally posted by wakka View Post
                        But I don’t think that means it isn’t something that we, as gamers, shouldn’t be trying to address within our own community.
                        Of course. Although I suspect that the services such as Xbox Live, Steam etc. are more accountable and going further than social media platforms.

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                          Yeah I used to feel it was much more prevalent in gaming but I realised that was just because it was more visible to me. It’s across a lot of fandoms. But as Wakka expresses, that doesn’t mean it should be denied, waved away or that there is anything to be gained by pointing to other fandoms as a way of shrugging your shoulders about what goes on in our own.

                          It’s a very real problem. But like I said in my earlier post, it’s not here. It’s not remotely here. The common factors seem to be toxic boards, ****posting, meme life, shock humour and a general acceptance of racism, misogyny and targeting of people for related reasons. We’re not one of those places here and I can’t imagine any of you are in those places either.

                          But unfortunately in our hobby we’re uncomfortably close. And it’s part of the reason I didn’t get into online gaming. These people are a random match away. They are in our games. So I feel it’s important to acknowledge it, not accept it and be careful not to validate it. Or distract from it.

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                            Originally posted by Digfox View Post
                            Of course. Although I suspect that the services such as Xbox Live, Steam etc. are more accountable and going further than social media platforms.
                            I saw XBox Live voice chat, said to be used for planning terrorist attacks, rather than using mobiles (which are recorded) by MI5. I also remember the Suffork Police cheif blame video games for the rise in knife crime 3 years go

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                              Originally posted by Team Andromeda View Post
                              I saw XBox Live voice chat, said to be used for planning terrorist attacks, rather than using mobiles (which are recorded) by MI5. I also remember the Suffork Police cheif blame video games for the rise in knife crime 3 years go
                              Isn't that true of any lesser known VOIP options, i.e. there will be many easier ways to have conversations more securely? It sounds a bit 'urban myth' to me, but that aside addressing 'toxicity' and harassment etc. starts with the platform holders. Allowing reporting, commending etc. but always crucially having the right number of employees policing and supporting. I feel I see more bans on video gaming platforms than on social media as a whole, although difficult to substantiate that statement in any way.

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                                Originally posted by Digfox View Post
                                Isn't that true of any lesser known VOIP options, i.e. there will be many easier ways to have conversations more securely? It sounds a bit 'urban myth' to me, but that aside addressing 'toxicity' and harassment etc. starts with the platform holders. Allowing reporting, commending etc. but always crucially having the right number of employees policing and supporting. I feel I see more bans on video gaming platforms than on social media as a whole, although difficult to substantiate that statement in any way.
                                BBC click and BBC breakfast did a interview with a MI5 member who said that unlike with Mobile where by law the operators have do keep recordings of all voice chats, XBox Live didn't and you can use it to chat to people around the world and the MI5 member said the law needed to be changed. It was a couple of years ago now, so maybe the law been changed

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