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    Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
    I do think the players need to shoulder some of the responsibility. They are paid vast sums to entertain us and if they're not pulling their weight then blaming the crowd for not getting them motivated is just wrong. Players earning ?20,000/week and some more than triple that should be working their socks off to do their job. Showing that they're worth those wages to the crowd in the stadium who, after all, are the ones paying a significant percentage of them is part of the deal. It is a two way street; they play well, the crowd gets excited and that encourages them to play even better.

    But if a number of players are making mistakes, don't appear to be pulling their weight and playing badly as a team I think the crowd quietening down and getting a bit critical is a natural response. The players have to take the initiative in this, it is part of their job.
    I don't think AVB or any of the players are suggesting that they can ONLY play well if the fans motivate them first. Sometimes you can give 100% and try your hardest but still end up having a bad game. No matter what they're paid, they're only human, and they're going to have days where things go wrong no matter how hard they try. Those are the situations where AVB is (rightly in my view) saying that the fans can get behind the team better.

    I agree that if a player doesn't look like they're putting in the effort, they shouldn't expect the support of the crowd. However, I've seen plenty of dodgy Spurs performances over the years and rarely have I thought that they were playing badly because they simply couldn't be arsed (the occasional individual player, but never the team as a whole).

    When we play a team from outside the top six or seven, unless we score early or are creating tons of chances, the support falls away very quickly. I agree that eventually a crowd will become quiet and critical if all they see is mistakes, but in my view it happens way too early at WHL these days. Ten minutes into a match without a goal and it's not uncommon for the crowd to have gone silent.

    In my view all this does is hinder the team. It may be entertainment but it's a unique form of entertainment where the crowd is an active participant. Also, first and foremost, it's a sport where psychology plays a massive part.

    When we're playing a team like Hull who had a ton of players behind the ball, voicing disapproval and not getting behind the team when we're finding it really tough to break the opposition down is only giving our opponents more of an advantage. When the team is having a tough time like that, surely that's the most important time to get behind them and really voice your support?

    Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
    Look how well Andros Townsend has been received, we were saying here pre-season just how good he and Danny Rose were looking and he's continued that form and you can't say the crowd isn't getting behind him. Every time he gets the ball there's an immediate buzz of expectation and excitement just as there was for Gareth Bale and Arron Lennnon, at least before the latter decided to stop doing the very thing he was good at. You can see in the interviews with AT how much the support is motivating him and that's how it should be.
    Indeed, the crowd have been right behind Andros and I'm sure that has boosted his confidence and helped him maintain his form, which goes to show just how important a positive reaction from the crowd can be.

    I'm sure at some point he will hit a patch of bad form (every player does) where he's tackled every time he tries a dribble, can't find a team mate with a cross, and fluffs some easy chances in front of goal, and he can't understand why things aren't working.

    Then, the crowd still chanting his name, despite poor performances, will be even more important to help him get his confidence and form back. If the crowd reaction was "Start playing well again, until then, no cheers for you," I'd bet good money it would take him longer to get back to his best. I think the same principal applies to the team as a whole.

    IMHO

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      Listening to the reports on the Spurs/Hull match on R5 Sport and hells teeth that was an exciting enough match just dipping in and out as I was doing this evening. The live penalty shoot out nearly gave me a heart attack even though just on the radio but, for once after seven previous penalty shoot out failures, Spurs won. Looking foward to seeing it on BBC1 later tonight.
      Last edited by fallenangle; 31-10-2013, 11:55.

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        Well the ?20 ticket ended up being really good value, but it was no good for the nerves. It was worth it though to see us win our first penalty shoot out since 1994! Could do without the delays on the Victoria line are making it an even later night (at least I can use the free wifi at Tottenham Hale).

        Edit: West Ham at home in the next round, a chance to avenge the league defeat. I didn't realise last night that their equaliser in the second half was a Friedel own goal, glad he got the chance to make up for it with a couple of penalty saves. Sigurdsson's goal was stunning, the control, turn and shot all top class.

        Good to see a youngster like Kane coming on and making a difference too, a shame when he hit the bar in injury time but got his deserved goal in extra time. Thought Lamela had a decent game too, unlucky not to score with his free kick. Apparently he's having a tough time adapting to England but his family have finally flown over to join him this week so hopefully that will help him settle. It's clear that it's all there talent wise.

        Oh, crowd was excellent last night, loads of chanting and singing all the way through, and really loud and positive responses when Hull scored. AVB, the master of psychology
        Last edited by EJG1980; 31-10-2013, 09:16.

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          AVB commented afterwards that the crowd's contribution was important last night too. A lot of it was booing the Hull penalty takers. Nevertheless that has to be the best set of penalties from two sides in a shoot out I've seen in ages.

          Kyle Walker was VERY lucky not to have been sent off earlier for that flying tackle. On the BBC slow motion analysis it looked like a finishing move from Steet Fighter.

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            I was taken aback by how loud the booing was! It was great fun

            It was an excellent shoot out and a really good cup tie overall. I was worried when we took the lead though as nearly every time I've seen a shoot out in the past few years, the team taking the lead ends up losing. Thankfully that wasn't the case last night.

            After that Walker tackle my brother and I were saying we hoped he'd just get away with a yellow, we were amazed that the ref only gave him a talking to.

            Hull must be glad to see the back of WHL. They did well in both matches, had decisions go against them, and have to go home with no reward from either match. Football can be a bugger sometimes.

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              Apparently Steve Bruce is having his knuckles rapped for some of the comments he made after the first game in connection with the penalty.

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                With Liverpool and Chelsea losing today it makes the match between Everton and Spurs tomorrow a bit more important. If either side manages to win the match they'll go second.

                I've never been to Goodison Park before so I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully I'll have a better time than my brother who went last year and saw us let in those two goals in the last minute!

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                  Watch out for the stewards at Goodison...proper bunch of overzealous, jumped up arseholes there! Accused my mate of being "too drunk" when he was laughing in the queue...despite him being teetotal...and took his ticket off him. In other years I've seen them turn loads of people away for no reason.

                  Otherwise going to Everton is great...proper football stadium in this world of soul less concrete boxes...also a good bunch of fans. A group of them smuggled us into the local pub to watch the game we never made it into on the dodgy satellite tv and we had a great laugh with them.

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                    Luckily I didn't encounter any 'orrible stewards today. You're right about Goodison, lovely ground that's full of character, and quite a novelty having to sit on wooden seats! Great atmosphere in the away end, had a nice chat with some Everton fans on the train after the match, it was a fun day out.

                    As for the match, Spurs on top in the first half, Everton on top in the second, so a draw was a fair result. A point away at Everton is nothing to be sniffed at, I don't think they've lost at home in the whole of 2013.

                    Despite the fact that we've yet to really click and play as well as we can for most of this season, we're keeping up a two points per game average and it's our best ever start to a season in the Premier League era. Seven clean sheets in opening ten league matches too, which we haven't done before (ever, I think).

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                      Keeping clean sheets: really great but we desperately need to score more goals. Just look at those stats and the goal difference compared to most of our likely top four, in fact top six, rivals. Man.City have scored over three times as many as Spurs, Arsenal over double and even Liverpool have scored just under double and all with far better GD too.

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                        It's a new situation for us Spurs fans as over the years we'd usually have the opposite problem of being pretty potent going forward but leaking goals at the back in nearly every match.

                        I suppose that, on balance, it's probably best to make sure your defence is good first before you sort out the attack. If you're having trouble up front you need every goal to really count, which is a lot easier if you're letting in very few at the other end. Build from a solid foundation and all that jazz.

                        The lack of goals is a concern though. I think that at the moment we're playing in a style that's more suited to having an Adebayor style striker up front. There's nothing wrong with playing inverted wingers who cut inside and shoot, but it doesn't play to the strengths of Soldado (or Defoe if he starts).

                        Put Townsend on the left and Lennon on the right, ask them to beat their man and whip the ball across the box, and I think Soldado would lap it up. Admittedly it was against weak opposition, but I remember Chadli playing on the left in a Europa League game and fizzing the ball across the box and Soldado said thanks very much and bagged a couple of goals.

                        I'm an optimist though and we have a talented team and coaching staff, I'm confident that they can eventually get things clicking in the attacking third of the pitch.

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                          As usual, tactics have stagnated. Everyone uses inverted wingers and it has become all too predictable. Teams don't set up according to players. Defoe would thrive aa suggested above with standard wingers. Play the behind the last defender.

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                            It is early days but I think Soldado, so far, has not really justified his inclusion in the starting line up. Defoe's goal scoring form, when he's on the pitch, is better and he deserves to be treated as the number one striker until Soldado proves his case.

                            I think AVB is trying to do a Lloris with him as he was VERY shakey early on and Brad Friedel consistent reliable peformance was sacrificed to allow Lloris time to settle in. I don't think we can afford that sort of luxury with Soldado. Look at Torres at Chelsea; on paper he's a superb player and one I said at the time Spurs could consider. But he's never been the same since he left Liverpool and has only recently started to show some of the form he had there.

                            Spurs can't wait that long for a return on their investment. We bought Soldado to score goals and the stats don't lie.

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                              Soldado hasn't set the world on fire yet, but I'm not sure Defoe would get many more goals if he replaced him as first choice in Premier League matches. Soldado is a penalty box poacher (all of his 24 goals for Valencia last season were scored from inside the penalty area) and we're not playing to his strengths at all at the moment, and I think the lack of chances created for our striker would hamper Defoe as well.

                              Case in point was the West Ham game. Defoe started and played the whole ninety minutes yet only had two shots in the entire match, thanks to the lack of appropriate service. At the moment I think which of them plays up front is less important than getting the players behind to create more decent chances that either of them would lap up.

                              I think if AVB felt Defoe deserved to start ahead of Soldado he'd put him in the team. He's shown he doesn't worry about price tag with the way Lamela has been unable to break into the first eleven thus far, and with Holtby looking like he's moved ahead of Eriksson in the pecking order for the past few matches.

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                                Great to see Lamela putting in a very good performance last night. He was the summer signing I was most excited by and it's been a real shame to watch him struggle so far. Hopefully last night will be the confidence boost he needs to put the frustrating start to his Spurs career behind him and he'll kick on from here.

                                Also good to see Capoue back from injury, Kaboul putting in another ninety minutes, Defoe breaking our European goalscoring record, and us qualifying for the next round with two matches to spare. Not a bad night

                                AVB said if we qualified early he'd can give some starts to a few promising youth players in the remaining matches. Nabil Bentaleb was a player he specifically mentioned that he'd like to give a first team start to. Could be useful if we can rest some players for the snowy trip to Norway and the home match with Anzi, especially as we have about eight matches to play in December.

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