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    Its a perennial Spurs problem: one half bad, one half good. It was there under Poch too. Even with just the highlights on MotD you could see that whatever had been said at half-time by the manager seemed to have the right effect because the second half was the sort of performance you'd hope for. Indeed Lucas Moura seemed like a different person, dangerous, busy and creative.

    We won, that's the thing and it keeps us up there in touch with the top six but we still need to score more goals; our GD is embarrassingly bad for a top half of the Premiership team let alone a top six or four contender.

    Comment


      Hard to know where to start with tonight's performance! Just an all around car crash and will have been a real eye opener for Conte about the amount of work needed at the club.

      It was a big chance tonight for a lot of the fringe players who haven't yet had a chance to start under Conte to impress him, and they blew it in spectacular fashion. The first half was abysmal, and while the second was an improvement once we brought on the "big guns" it still wasn't that great even taking into account us being down to ten men.

      And still, we may have got away with it, after Vitesse came back from 3-1 down to draw 3-3 with Rennes, we had a get out of jail free card. That result meant a draw against NS Mura still left us able to top the group by beating Rennes in our final game... and then we let in the calamity of the last minute goal to lose the match, so now the best we can do is second and the annoyance of the extra playoff round. And if we don't beat Rennes, there's a big chance we could go out of the competition completely, which would be so disappointing.

      I have full confidence that given time and backing Conte will eventually get us competing at the top, but if there was any clarification needed that it won't be an easy, quick fix process, tonight provided it.

      Comment


        The mistake was surely experimenting with a significant number of second choice players in any competition even against a supposedly lesser team. That was a very Poch like thing to do and which often had 'mixed' results.

        I'm not saying he did not mind if it went badly but that it was risky in a match we should have won and needed to win to be certain of progression. Experimentation was a bad idea, it was a gamble which did not pay off and the manager himself needs to accept much of the responsibility for that embarrassment.

        Comment


          Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
          The mistake was surely experimenting with a significant number of second choice players in any competition even against a supposedly lesser team. That was a very Poch like thing to do and which often had 'mixed' results.

          I'm not saying he did not mind if it went badly but that it was risky in a match we should have won and needed to win to be certain of progression. Experimentation was a bad idea, it was a gamble which did not pay off and the manager himself needs to accept much of the responsibility for that embarrassment.
          While Conte has a to take a little bit of the responsibility due to playing a "weakened" team, I'd put a way way higher percentage of the responsibility on the players. Especially as rotated teams against weaker opposition in cups is pretty much the norm these days for most clubs.

          It's not like he played youth players who have barely had a kick at a high level before. Lots of the players who came in have loads of top flight experience and multiple caps for their national teams. Even the least experienced players who came in have played in the PL or other top flights plenty of times. This wasn't chucking in players like Alfie Devine or Harvey White straight from the youth team and expecting them to perform.

          But as I said before the main disappointment for me was the fact that this was a chance for a lot of these players to impress a new manager and change their fortunes, but they didn't seem too bothered. Conte has form for bringing forgotten players in from the if he thinks they can help the first team, so you'd think that in the early days especially, players who had only seen sporadic first team action would be going all out to get Conte to notice them.

          To be fair some of the players (mainly the younger ones) did look like they cared and were trying, even when playing poorly. Too many of the more senior players didn't though, and I think they will have been "noticed" by Conte, but not for any positive reasons.

          Comment


            Poch, eventually, knew his best side both Spurs A and Spurs B.

            Conte is completely new to the job and has no idea who are the key players in any particular line up. They might be good quality senior players but football is a team sport and it is the manger's job to get the mix right and know the best tactics to use with any particular mix.

            You can't just shoehorn 11 random players and tell them to play this or that way, or you can, but it is a gamble. If it works you play that combination again, hopefully with the same results.

            Mourhino's problem at Spurs was that he was trying to get them to play in the way he wanted but the players were not his choice, he was making do with what he was given. Unsurprisingly it didn't work. I remember once he allowed them to play in the way they were bought to do and I think Spurs won but they let in two goals and won only by the skin of their teeth. In the journalists conference or an interview he gave later he said in effect you see what happens if you play that way.

            Conte simply hasn't been there long enough and doesn't know how to use the current squad effectively, and even if it can be used effectively. He's finding out who he wants to keep, who he needs to get rid of and who to try to buy. He needs to mould the team into 'his' team and at the moment it is not his team, it is what he has inherited.

            Therefore, in a match you really have to win, you should play safe and use your known best players in their proven most effective configuration ie. not use it as a testing ground IMHO.

            Comment


              Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
              Therefore, in a match you really have to win, you should play safe and use your known best players in their proven most effective configuration ie. not use it as a testing ground IMHO.
              Very fair point. Perhaps it would have been better to start with the team that we saw in the second half, and sub off the big guns early if/when we'd established a decent lead. Less risky and those players would still likely get at least some rest before the Burnley match.

              Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
              Conte simply hasn't been there long enough and doesn't know how to use the current squad effectively, and even if it can be used effectively. He's finding out who he wants to keep, who he needs to get rid of and who to try to buy. He needs to mould the team into 'his' team and at the moment it is not his team, it is what he has inherited.
              Which again highlights the annoyance that the move to appoint him in the summer broke down at the last moment, as he'd have had a full pre-season to do a lot of that work.

              Comment


                The match against Burnley today has just been postponed due to snow. Feel sorry for the poor buggers who got up early to make the long trip up there today only to have to come straight back home, and all the travel money spent that will never be refunded.

                At least it gives us a bit of extra rest and before we play Brentford and Norwich, and no need for a light "recovery day" in training tomorrow. Straight back home and give them the rest of today off, and then get them in nice and early tomorrow and work them like dogs, Antonio

                Edit: at least Lucas is enjoying himself!

                Last edited by EJG1980; 28-11-2021, 14:00.

                Comment


                  Good win this evening and a welcome comfortable one. Not the greatest performance you’ll ever see, but decent, and it’s baby steps; you can see the players (in the first eleven, at least) getting used to the Conte formation little by little, with patterns of play starting to emerge.

                  Again our Achilles heel of good build-up but poor decision / execution on the final ball curtailed a number of our attacking moves, but hopefully that will improve as the players get more and more used to playing in this formation, and the movements and passes become more automatic.

                  Skipp did very well tonight, rightly named man of the match by Glenn Hoddle. It was also the best I’ve seen Son for a number of matches, I think he’s been a little bit off the pace recently, but maybe this is the start of one of his streaks of excellent form. Kane still having no luck in front of goal, on form he’d have buried the chance he had at the start of the second half. Still some great passing though, lovely ball to Reguilon in the build up to the second goal.

                  Norwich at the weekend, so hopefully we can get another three points and build up a little bit of momentum. Could go into the top four if other results go our way, and still have our game in hand to come.

                  Comment


                    Very winnable (desperately needed big goal score possible too) game at Norwich and the Burnley match in hand too. So, on paper, a very good chance of moving further up the table, which is nice.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
                      Very winnable (desperately needed big goal score possible too) game at Norwich and the Burnley match in hand too. So, on paper, a very good chance of moving further up the table, which is nice.
                      Yeah, it'd be nice to move on to a positive goal difference. Last night was our first win this season by more than one goal (in the Premier League)!

                      Weirdly though, there are currently sixteen teams in the PL who don't have a positive goal difference and only four who do. That's gotta be some kind of record, 80% of the teams in the league having a goal difference of zero or less.

                      We'd need to win by five against Norwich to get to +1 so even though they're not the greatest team, it'd still need a very good performance from us. They've actually become a bit more resilient in recent matches too, no loss in four and only two losses in the past eight, so I think they'll make it tougher than their league position suggests.

                      Still, we're at home to the team in 19th, so anything other than a win will be a disappointment. Hopefully it'll be a convincing win by a few goals, but any kind of win will do.

                      Comment


                        3 - 0!

                        Well that was good, what I hoped for and actually thought yesterday 3 - 0 would be ideal and they obliged. Just what Spurs needed.

                        Watched the highlights and that Moura goal was a real scorcher, if Conte can get him scoring regularly it could be back to really good times again.

                        Norwich unlucky not to have got a goal but we managed to keep a clean sheet. Very pleasing; made my Sunday which otherwise has been dull as dishwater.
                        Last edited by fallenangle; 06-12-2021, 13:26. Reason: typo

                        Comment


                          Yup, it felt similar to the Brentford match, a decent performance that was more than enough for a comfortable win. Still a long way to go and lots of improving to do, but you can see things progressing in a positive direction. Some really lovely moments that, hopefully in the weeks and months to come, we’ll see us doing with much more regularity. Excellent football for both the Lucas and Son goals.

                          Although, as you said, Norwich did have two big chances to score at 0-0 and at 1-0, so we had a bit of luck that they didn’t put one of those away. Not much for Hugo to do apart from those two moments though, and I still think we’d have won even if they had put one of those away.

                          Today was one of Lucas’ “on” matches, and he’s so great to watch on days like today. His first goal in 20 league matches though, which highlights the main problem with him. As you say, he’d be a hell of a player if Conte could get him playing like that consistently.

                          Another great match for Skipp; I don’t know if it was in the highlights, but there was a great moment in the first half where he did a beautiful tackle to win the ball back and then played a pass (while still on the floor) to set up an attack for us. A real stand up and applaud moment. Looking good going forwards too, a nice one two with Davies in the build up to the third goal.

                          Speaking of, I think Davies has been excellent since Conte has arrived. Probably because he’s played there loads for Wales, but he looks really comfortable in a back three. Looks solid at the back and steps out of defence to make some nice marauding runs forward too.

                          Quick mention also for Sessegnon, who did well when he came on as a sub today, and will have been under a bit of pressure to make up for his red card in Europe.

                          Comment


                            Later I watched it on MotD and it included more of the the things you described than the two plus minutes of highlights I was referring too earlier.

                            Agree about Ben Davies, he was out of favour principally because of Reguilon, but seems to be back as a first team choice. I can't see any reason why he and Reguilon can't be played together either rather than just used as like for like.

                            But there is worrying talk that Real Madrid are interested in activating the buy back clause that was apparently part of the Bale/Reguilon package.

                            The right back position is where the problem still is IMHO - as I've asked here too many times why on earth did Spurs get rid of Trippier? He's been linked with several top clubs for a return to the Premiership.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
                              Agree about Ben Davies, he was out of favour principally because of Reguilon, but seems to be back as a first team choice. I can't see any reason why he and Reguilon can't be played together either rather than just used as like for like.
                              I've always liked Ben, the epitome of a non-flashy player who ends up being underrated for it.

                              And Conte agrees with you! They've played together in every match* since Conte arrived, Reguilon as the left wing-back with Davies as one of the three centre-backs. Looks like Sessegnon is now seen as the backup for Reguilon on the left hand side.

                              * Except the match against NS Mura when we played a reserve side, and neither were in the starting line up.

                              Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
                              But there is worrying talk that Real Madrid are interested in activating the buy back clause that was apparently part of the Bale/Reguilon package.
                              Yeah, the clause runs out in summer 2022 so it'll be interesting to see what happens then. Even if Madrid do want him back, he still has to agree to go. He'd have to dislodge Ferland Mendy, a £50 million French international left back to get into Madrid's starting 11, so he may prefer to be first choice at Spurs than almost certainly being a backup option at Madrid (which is indeed one of the reasons he left in the first place).

                              Plus, while I really like Reguilon, he has had ups and downs with his form. Tons of potential but he's not the finished article, so I don't think it's a certainty that Madrid will want him back.

                              Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
                              The right back position is where the problem still is IMHO - as I've asked here too many times why on earth did Spurs get rid of Trippier? He's been linked with several top clubs for a return to the Premiership.
                              Yup, none of the other right backs we've had since Trippier left (Aurier and Doherty) have been as good as he was.

                              Too early to judge Emerson Royal yet, he's only been here a few months and has had to adapt to a new manager in that time too. I've seen some good stuff from him, and some bad, jury is still out (and he's still very young, only 22). Supposedly Conte wanted him at Inter this summer, before he quit due to the financial problems, so hopefully Conte's judgement is spot on and he becomes a good player for us.

                              Edit: forgot that the FA Cup draw was this evening, just seen that we’ve been drawn at home to Morecambe. I know it’s a cliche but that’s a proper FA Cup tie
                              Last edited by EJG1980; 06-12-2021, 20:23.

                              Comment


                                I saw the FA Cup draw live and was waiting for Spurs to get a tough game with two ex-Arsenal players making the draw. Weirdly the first ball was for the winner of the game they were covering on ITV4 just after the draw and the very last was........Arsenal.

                                But anyway we got Morecambe - as you say a proper FA Cup fixture.

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