The Relationship Thread II: Lost in that Last Goodbye

[Zaki]

Now I feel totally the WRONG thing to do.

But moment I see her, moment we're snogging. Just how it is.

[QualityChimp]

[JazzFunk]

Namyslow Pils when I wrote that last nite. Pint cans. Eight cans for less than a tenner and I had four Heinies at the bingo as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blameless, but I am blaming what I drunk, I was a victim.

Anyway, no replies to my drunken message today. It wasn't even that embarrassing a message, in fact it was quite clever in the sense you could see it both ways, friend-y yet open.

Absolutely, definitely for the best. But I did get a flutter at work kinda hoping she'd reply. But ultimately it would be just for a temporary carnal need on my part. And it would reopen some crazy sexual-emotional realm that I couldn't be bothered with right now.

But damn I crave her smooth, big teats in me snapper.

[Neon Ignition]

One day we need to put together a compilation book of quotes from this thread

[Cassius_Smoke]

I think a compilation of Jazzy Quotes would be a New York times best seller.

[JazzFunk]

Oh god she replied a few hours back. Haha. Reap what you sow. I'm such an idiot. But the teats...

[Zaki]

Oh god she replied a few hours back. Haha. Reap what you sow. I'm such an idiot. But the teats...

http://www.charityboats.org/images/motorboatdonations.png

[QualityChimp]

Oh god she replied a few hours back. Haha. Reap what you sow. I'm such an idiot. But the teats...

History is littered with idiot men tempted by the teats.

David, Samson, Mark Antony, Tiger Woods, Hamilton, King Edward VIII, Bill Clinton and David Petraeus.

[Neon Ignition]

Immediate mental image:

JazzDate: "I can't believe you messaged me after all this time:


Jazz:

[QualityChimp]

->Open Spoiler<-

[Blobcat]

I was going to respond with a crushed by boobs scene from the anime Puni Puni Poemi but I though better.

[JazzFunk]

I responded because I felt guilty and she's a really nice person. An "I'm OK, hope you are too" but nothing else.

I reckon me responding will open a door. But I can't just open a door that's been closed for nine months and not respond, that is messing someone propah abaht.

I think my penisbrain is in control of the subcon.

[Sketcz]

So there's a recent news story on how sexual harassment is rampant in the UK and the government wants to introduce new laws criminalising various interactions.

Now, I find approaching a woman to ask her out induces a white knuckle terror at the best of times. Thank god for Tinder and hook-up websites. Because what no one ever discusses is the humiliation of asking out a random stranger and being rejected, at being publicly shamed in front of everyone by being judged as worthless garbage in the eyes of the divine goddess you wished to court.

Anyway, the talk of new laws to make approaching a woman and asking her out illegal have made me wonder how new generations are going to court each other?


I also want to give a personal example and ask, was this harassment?


This was in 2007, after starting my new job. And I'd regularly go to my local bank around the corner from work to sort errands, pay bills, etc. I'd be in there 2~3 times a week.

So one month there's a new woman working there, and I end up at her desk. She notices my Polish surname and mentions she is also Polish, and starts chatting about Poland. It turns out she comes from the same town where my aunt lives. We chat about the town a bit, and our holidays there, etc.

On subsequent visits whenever she saw me she'd smile and wave, and I would wave back. And I'd usually end up at her desk for things, and we'd say hello on a first name basis, and we would chat and joke and laugh as usual - which I assumed was flirting.

I think to myself: this woman is attracted to me, and is using the Polish connection as a means to flirt. Because no one is this friendly. This is flirting, right? This has to be the definition of flirting, right? We also look about the same age, and she's young, and hot, and clearly smart and well organised. We've also discussed our shared love of pierogi and beetroot soup, and our family comes from the same area.

So it's the 3rd occasion where I actually end up at her desk, and she is her usually bubbly flirty self.

So after concluding my business I ask: "Would you like to meet for a drink sometime?"

She holds up her hand, displaying a wedding band which I never noticed before, and says, "Sorry, but I'm married."

"Oh, I see," is my response as the wave of terror threatens to cripple me inside the bank. I need to leave that place - now. I apologise profusely - "I am very sorry!" - and run out of there. My hands are shaking, my guts are wrenching, and I think I'm going to be sick.

I HAVE BEEN PUBLICLY SHAMED IN VIEW OF THE ENTIRE BANK - NAY, THE ENTIRE TOWN!

Who does that? Who flirts when they are married?

I go back to my flat, which is also round the corner, and call my work to take the rest of the day off. I think I poured myself into a bottle of Zabruwka to numb the pain and disgrace I felt. My memory gets hazy after that.

But there were worse problems: I COULD NEVER AGAIN VISIT THAT BANK. And the other nearest branch was not in walking distance. I'd have to drive or catch a bus.

So for the next 8 months I had to train my brother to become me. He was living in my apartment at the time, and I taught him all the code words, and direct debits, and he knew my birthday and our mother's maiden name. And I would give him my bank card and details, and he would go to the bank 2 to 3 times a week to sort my errands and bills, and withdraw cash.

My brother literally lived a double life: as himself, and as his own brother (myself).

Because there was no way I could ever go inside again when she was there. I wanted to hide from the world and die when I was in there last. The embarrassment at being in the same room was too great. Other bank patrons would see me and judge me - I would have been judged by them all.

Plus of course, as we all know, if you are rejected you need to avoid not just the woman in question, but that entire area so as to avoid bumping into her again. Even walking past the bank my adrenaline would hike and I'd feel like I was going to puke. The shame, the burning, agonising shame which I had brought upon myself. This is why I stopped asking women out in nightclubs, because even though it was London and there are plenty, I'd slowly rendered a whole slew of good places unvisitable. Because you might bump into past rejections there. The last couple needed to remain untainted by shame.

Anyway, luckily 8 months later she was moved to another bank branch or something, because my brother informed me she was no longer there, and I was able again to visit the bank. Though it was still painful, since I always wondered if she had told her colleagues, and now other bank staff were judging me. I felt like the laughing stock at that bank, and was tempted to start an account with an entirely different bank.

Not that I learned my lesson. A year ago I asked out a woman in the Sainsbury's that was 30 seconds from my flat. She said no, I ran out, and then I was forced to walk 20+ minutes to next nearest Sainsbury's. The lesson here is: never ask out a woman where, if she rejects you, the resulting geographical "terror radius" which you cannot enter falls close to your dwelling or within a structure you need to visit regularly, like a shop or the bank.

So, was that harassment in the bank?

Clearly the woman in the bank did not want me approaching her or asking her out. She was married after all. So according to modern reports, that was unwanted attention she was receiving.

And yet... Did she bring it on herself by the way she chatted with me? Or is that victim blaming? Should I take a more penetant attitude, accept that I was wrong to ask her out, and that this entire thing is my fault - that the wrongdoing was my own? Am I a bad person for what I did? Because after reading the Sky News report, and with the benefit of a decade's hindsight, it seems like society is now judging me as being a bad person.

Was that even flirting? Was she flirting with me despite being a married woman? Because I did not see the ring. Would "not seeing the ring" hold up in court if these new laws came into place? Could this be a defence: "Your honour, I did not realise she was married, I was taught to make eye contact with women, so I did not look at her hands and so did not see the ring."

Would someone be put on a register of harassers, because they showed that bank teller unwanted attention? In hindsight I wish I'd never asked her out at all - because the result was that my brother had to take on a double identity and live my life for half a year while I hid in the shadows, dictating his actions in paying my gas and electric bills.

So really, we all suffered. She suffered. I suffered. My brother suffered. An endless vortex of discomfort and shame and awkwardness because I succumbed to my desire for companionship by asking an attractive woman out. Chronic alcohol abuse suppresses the need for human company, fixing the above problem, but then they have laws like you can't drink and drive, or you can't drink before going into work. I mean Jesus, make up your minds here, or give us all access to Prozium II or something. I really wish we all lived in a world like Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Much easier that way.

This is what concerns me about these new laws. I felt enough shame as it is, having spent a couple of weeks building up the courage to ask, and then being shot down so spectacularly in public. My face burns red as I type this. But then to get into legal trouble for it under proposed new laws? That feels unfair. I never started the conversations, she started the conversations, and always with the smiling and waving. How could anyone not see that as flirting and cues to be asked out?

I never smile at anyone. It's not difficult, it's quite easy. How is anyone supposed to work this confusing **** out?

The easiest thing going forward after this new legislation is simply never talk to or make eye contact with women, possibly whilst heavily self-medicating to numb yourself to the world at large.

You know what would be great? Being gay. None of my gay friends have this problem. They're all on Grindr and their love lives are an endless revolving door of prospective life partners.

Being a straight white man feels like the hardest thing on Earth right now.

[speedlolita]

She was nice to you because it's literally her job. I'm sure the nationality thing reminded her of home though. Asking someone out isn't sexual harassment, by my understanding. Clearly you'd built up a repertoire.

You couldn't glance at her ring finger? lol

[QualityChimp]

Oh Sketcz, man!

It's you that has the problem, here.
Firstly, I'm not sure where you're getting this nonsense about it's illegal to ask people out from.
You can't just say "All dating must be conducted within the online environment".
I did a news search and nothing came up.
Maybe you're thinking of tougher sexual harassment guidelines?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45942447

Just chalk it up as a learning experience, like Speedo says, I bet you know to look for a wedding ring now?

You should have just apologised and moved on, rather than BREAK THE LAW by using your brother to pretend he's you!

As long as you're not being a perv, there's nothing wrong with asking people out, just try squeezing in some probing questions
"Oh, your surname is Polish too? Is that your married name? Ah OK, do you get loads of people struggling with all the "Zs" in Polish, I know I do!"
BOOM! Sandwiched in between some friendly chat.