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    Originally posted by BigDeadFreak View Post
    I always find that artificial scan lines never quite look realistic. They seem far too noticeable than they are on a real CRT. Sure, they exist on a real CRT but not in the way that emulators and stuff like the Framemeister portrays them.
    It depends what resolution you're using. The higher the resolution, the tighter the scanlines are together, which looks more like a CRT. But you also need to make sure you don't get the dreadful 'shimmer' effect, where the scanlines look blocky when the screen scrolls. This is especially a problem with vertical scrolling games. The problem when using HDMI, is most televisions only like 480/720/1080p. 1080p obviously gives the sharpest image, but old 240p games look better at 720p. The ideal resolution would be 1920x960 - that would give a really sharp image, CRT style scanlines, and things would look fine when scrolling.

    4K[3840x2160] is ideal for 240p games. Hopefully a 4K upscaler like the Framemeister or OSSC will appear. I think the results could be stunning. With emulation - either try to use the custom resolution 1920x960, or maybe use a 4K screen with a computer that can output 4K.
    Last edited by Leon Retro; 28-07-2018, 11:17.

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      Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
      Maybe I'm a sad person??? But that's actually a tempting offer. Would be nice to see a top quality PVM/BVM in action. I might end up having to spend £500 on one for myself.

      Maybe it's best to stick with thinking the image using my OSSC looks great.
      Nothing sad about it mate - the beers cold, the weathers warm and the video quality is 11/10. My Sony 20f1e, 14e5e, 20L4, 2053, F520, and jvc 1400pn await your critique!

      You don’t really want to go to the grave with an ossc or a consumer set as your benchmark for image quality? ;-)

      Comment


        BVM for the retro-gamer bucket list win!

        It's true though, nowt compares. I won't be happy with myself until I somehow snag a 20"

        Comment


          Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
          Nothing sad about it mate - the beers cold, the weathers warm and the video quality is 11/10. My Sony 20f1e, 14e5e, 20L4, 2053, F520, and jvc 1400pn await your critique!

          You don’t really want to go to the grave with an ossc or a consumer set as your benchmark for image quality? ;-)
          Trust me you have to see these in action! Nothing compares, he's already converted me..........You'll be next

          Comment


            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            Nothing sad about it mate
            I just meant travelling from London to Belfast to see a CRT in action would be seen as sad by some people. But enthusiasts do travel to witness wonders.

            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            and the video quality is 11/10.



            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            My Sony 20f1e, 14e5e, 20L4, 2053, F520, and jvc 1400pn await your critique!
            Like a candy shop for retro gamers.


            Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post
            You don’t really want to go to the grave with an ossc or a consumer set as your benchmark for image quality? ;-)
            In retro heaven... maybe everyone gets a brand new BVM?

            But seriously, thanks for the offer. If I ever feel like visiting Ireland, maybe I'll be able to pop in and see what I'm missing out on. I wish I had bought a PVM/BVM when they were £50 a while back - then I'd know how far off the OSSC on a decent LCD is. If a load of spare cash comes my way, I might just pick one up and see if they live up to the hype.
            Last edited by Leon Retro; 28-07-2018, 20:38.

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              Double-post.
              Last edited by Escape-To-88; 28-07-2018, 22:12.
              3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

              Comment


                Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                When you think that a PC with a decent i5
                You don't even need an i5 mate. An i3 will do, the other cores are pretty redundant, despite Dolphin and PCSX2 using a third, I don't think this really gives it much of an increase of efficiency. There's very little improvement, hence a much older CPU overclocked to say 4.9ghz will outpace a i7 4.5ghz 2600k machine - I know the later isn't new, but I run that on my gaming desktop and emulation-wise it's slicker on the two cores.

                On the CRT/LCD filtered topic I think if you mess with both enough you get used to either. I was fortunate to get most of my PVMs and BVMs for free or extremely cheap by today's standards (the last large one courtesy of a lovely forums member on here, but when all is said and done having set up my plasma correctly with some lovely effects and borders I made, would most people care? Not really. Do I even care?....hmmm...just about. That said I'm not sure I'd trust any videogame company to do scanline filters well, purely because I've not seen it. I'd rather do it myself. If all my CRT monitors suddenly broke though I'm not entirely sure I'd be on a mad rush to find another. I've sold various broadcast monitors and consumer CRTs to people and I found the latest influx of 'gamers' - not arcade guys - who bought them form me had never really spent any time with either to really notice the difference, and they would have been just as happy bombing £20 on Gumtree on a Sony 14". To my eyes a decent arcade monitor produces the nicest image. Don't get me wrong 800 lines is wonderful and I fully appreciate having these, but they aren't the be all and end all. And let's be honest I used to play on some average Sanyo set when I was younger, as TVs were expensive, and to find one with decent RGB was impossible until I was in my very early teens!

                I think it's important to have some kind of basic working understanding of how these things work too. I've used broadcast monitors a long while ago on set i.e. what most were intended for, and there was more often than not a technician on-hand or someone before hand pre-setting these things up. I'm no engineer by any stretch but I do wish people - not any one on here, rather randoms that have bought them from me before - would just spend a couple of hours, or a day, or whatever understanding what adjustment entails and most of us aren't qualified to set one of these things so in the long run it inevitably goes pop long before it should.

                Bottom line, I love running stuff on CRT tubes, however they come, but ultimately it can't really be the be all and end all as at some point these tubes will all deteriorate. Having seen an OSCC on Brad's TV I was pretty impressed, so maybe something like that is the ultimate answer? But where do my light guns plug in !?
                Last edited by Escape-To-88; 28-07-2018, 22:22.
                3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                  I just meant travelling from London to Belfast to see a CRT in action would be seen as sad by some people. But enthusiasts do travel to witness wonders.








                  Like a candy shop for retro gamers.




                  In retro heaven... maybe everyone gets a brand new BVM?

                  But seriously, thanks for the offer. If I ever feel like visiting Ireland, maybe I'll be able to pop in and see what I'm missing out on. I wish I had bought a PVM/BVM when they were £50 a while back - then I'd know how far off the OSSC on a decent LCD is. If a load of spare cash comes my way, I might just pick one up and see if they live up to the hype.
                  Lol - they don’t call my gaff the crack-den for gamers for nothing ;-)

                  I reckon even quick rip on the jvc would enough for you cast serious doubts on the ossc/lcd setup. Moving over to the 600 liner with EBU phosphors, you would slowly start foaming at the mouth. Working our way up to the the L4’s 800 lines, you would be already writing the description on eBay for the osscs sale. And finally by the time we reached the 20f1e’s 900 lines of broadcast wonder, you would be fully foaming at the mouth, have the ossc listed on the bay and be squirming on the floor in amazement, to how retro could look this good! ;-)

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                    You don't even need an i5 mate. An i3 will do, the other cores are pretty redundant,
                    When I bought my Mini PC it came with an i5 4460, but I was thinking about an i3 as a cheaper option. It also has a GeForce 750 GTX, so hopefully that's fine for Dolphin. I think it was a good deal at £180 with a new Samsung 850 250GB SSD installed, so Windows10 loads in 6 seconds. I think the overall package will make for a good retro system, so I just need to set it up when I have the time.


                    Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                    On the CRT/LCD filtered topic I think if you mess with both enough you get used to either.
                    As much as I believe a BVM can deliver an amazing picture for retro games, I am quite happy with how retro games can look on an LCD using emulation and setting things up properly. I also like what the OSSC delivers when using real hardware.

                    I probably would be really impressed with a BVM, but it's not like using an LCD has to look terrible. No, the only way retro games look truly bad are when you feed them directly into an LCD, or set up an emulator with blur filters etc...

                    Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                    I was fortunate to get most of my PVMs and BVMs for free or extremely cheap by today's standards
                    I remember seeing people going on about BVM & PVMs a few years ago - and then seeing the prices go from £50 to £100, then up to £300, and now people are selling top end Sony 20" BVMs for £1000. I wish I jumped on board when they were cheap, because I trust people when they say the screens can look stunning.

                    Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                    And let's be honest I used to play on some average Sanyo set when I was younger, as TVs were expensive, and to find one with decent RGB was impossible until I was in my very early teens!
                    As soon as I found out about RGB with the Mega Drive and Super Nintendo, I rented a Sony 21" and then bought a 25" after a while. I remember people telling me Sony were the best - and I was really happy with mine all through the 90s.

                    I recently bought a Sony 14", as it was cheap and in good condition. Playing the Super Nintendo on a CRT again, reminded me how good retro games look on them, and how an LCD without proper scaling and scanlines really does make retro games look disgusting. Little wonder people have gone crazy over the OSSC. I'm really happy with what it delivers.


                    Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                    Having seen an OSCC on Brad's TV I was pretty impressed, so maybe something like that is the ultimate answer? But where do my light guns plug in !?
                    I think the OSSC is a great device, but there's room to improve things. 4K and more options to create a CRT look would be nice. I doubt there will be a simple solution to getting light gun games working on an LCD though.

                    Comment


                      I doubt there will be a simple solution to getting light gun games working on an LCD though.
                      I forget the link but there was a guy doing this on kickstarter recently. He posted on the UKVac forums. Had already got the prototype working with the M2 emulator.

                      When I bought my Mini PC it came with an i5 4460, but I was thinking about an i3 as a cheaper option. It also has a GeForce 750 GTX,
                      Depends what sort of internal res you want to play at, anything else you want to throw at it. If you're playing in native res a £15 5450 with 1gb of RAM runs pretty much everything up to Wii. Just played Madworld and DKCR on my £75 setup perfectly with no frame stalls. On my gaming PC with a superclocked GTX 1060 6GB it runs everything at 2-4k internal res with hi-res texture packs perfectly.

                      so Windows10 loads in 6 seconds. I think the overall package will make for a good retro system, so I just need to set it up when I have the time.
                      As long as you don't plan to use CRTemudrivers with Win 10, it's a ballache to set up on there, if you can get it working at all, sounds like you're going LCD panel anyhow.
                      3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

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                        Originally posted by dvdx2 View Post

                        I reckon even quick rip on the jvc would enough for you cast serious doubts on the ossc/lcd setup.

                        Moving over to the 600 liner with EBU phosphors, you would slowly start foaming at the mouth.

                        Working our way up to the the L4’s 800 lines, you would be already writing the description on eBay for the osscs sale.

                        And finally by the time we reached the 20f1e’s 900 lines of broadcast wonder, you would be fully foaming at the mouth, have the ossc listed on the bay and be squirming on the floor in amazement, to how retro could look this good! ;-)


                        You would have me putting my OSSC on eBay faster than you can say "900 lines of broadcast wonder!"

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                          Depends what sort of internal res you want to play at,
                          I tend to like doubling the resolution and not use any filters. I like the graphics to look raw and sharp, so when I put scanlines on it feels like how I remember games looking on my Trinitron in the 90s.

                          Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                          Just played Madworld and DKCR on my £75 setup perfectly with no frame stalls.
                          All the talk about how your £75 PC can run GameCube and Dreamcast games perfectly, makes me hopeful that I will have no problems running them on my system. I might also see how PS2 games like Gradius V run on it.

                          Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                          sounds like you're going LCD panel anyhow.
                          I prefer Windows 7, but the PC came with Win10, so I've stripped all the rubbish out of it, and now it's similar to Win7 to use. I will be using my 1080p television. Now I just need to set everything up and tweak things to make games look authentic and run properly.
                          Last edited by Leon Retro; 29-07-2018, 18:29.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Leon Retro View Post
                            I tend to like doubling the resolution and not use any filters. I like the graphics to look raw and sharp, so when I put scanlines on it feels like how I remember games looking on my Trinitron in the 90s.



                            All the talk about how your £75 PC can run GameCube and Dreamcast games perfectly, makes me hopeful that I will have no problems running them on my system. I might also see how PS2 games like Gradius V run on it.



                            I prefer Windows 7, but the PC came with Win10, so I've stripped all the rubbish out of it, and now it's similar to Win7 to use. I will be using my 1080p television. Now I just need to set everything up and tweak things to make games look authentic and run properly.
                            You'll be fine mate. Like I say my gaming PC, which isn't exactly new, CPU-wise tears through Dolphin and PCSX2 and Cemu for that matter when I bothered with it.

                            Gradius V runs fine on the Optiplex 3010, so you'll have no issue, as I think your spec is higher as does Thunderforce VI, Nights (PS2 version), Fantasvision etc. etc.The only thing the cheapy business machine struggles with is what you'd expect, God War, Burnout 3 etc. etc. that's largely due to the graphics card to be honest. Dolphin is far more forgiving in emulation terms, especially if you run a build like Ishiiruka. Again this sort of emulation wasn't really my intention, it was primarily for SF Zero 3 on the Saturn, but it's been fine seeing it run almost everything I've thrown at it that includes running F-Zero GX and Wind Waker perfectly on the latest Ishiiruka build.

                            What speed is your CPU?
                            3DS FC (updated 2015): 0447-8108-3129

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                              Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                              but it's been fine seeing it run almost everything I've thrown at it that includes running F-Zero GX and Wind Waker perfectly on the latest Ishiiruka build.
                              It was really interesting to find out that a cheap business machine with a basic GPU can run GameCube and Dreamcast games really well. It really put my mind at rest when it comes to the SSF PC I bought for emulating those machines and other old 3D games.

                              Originally posted by Escape-To-88 View Post
                              What speed is your CPU?
                              It's a 4th Gen i5 running at 3.2 GHz, but can go up to 3.4. I think that combined with a GeForce 750 GTX should run everything fine - seeing I'm happy to have the actual graphics look like they would on the real console, with simply an increase in resolution and the addition of scanlines to make things look nice. I'm not one for trying to make old Dreamcast, GC, PS2 games look more modern. I will set up Dolphin this week with my 360 controller, then explore the Dreamcast and PS2. I remember Dreamcast emulation being terrible a few years ago when I had another PC for retro gaming. It's nice to know that Saturn and Dreamcast emulation works well these days.
                              Last edited by Leon Retro; 29-07-2018, 21:12.

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                                Yeah, so this is what I was referring to when I said "retro but not really retro", because it's for an old system but came out rather recently:


                                Is that okay to be posted in here? Will have a similar candidate coming sometime soon (not Jaguar though).

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