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Does Anyone On These Boards Recall a User That Went by '12-51-00'?

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    #16
    Details

    Before I go further, I'd like to say how gratified I am to see the attention this has been given.

    By the way, everybody wants to know what this extraordinary claim is...
    My apologies to all. A mere ten minutes after I posted this thread, it disappeared. It appears now that another administrator restored it. In any event, I was unaware this thread endured and only became aware of its defiant perpetuation... um... three or four minutes ago.

    In any event, that extraordinary claim was made at the Criterion Forum, a forum for discussion of Criterion Collection home video releases - that link will bring you immediately to the thread in question - and can be summarized thusly:

    12-51-00's work engendered splitting time between Tokyo, Leeds, and Seattle. Whilst in Seattle, he made the acquaintance of a young woman who was researching a bridge collapse. 12-51-00 volunteers to escort the young woman to a meeting in Tacoma with a retired structural engineer. That structural engineer had in his collection newspapers or newspaper articles related to a fraudulent insurance policy sold the State of Washington and while the young woman was perusing those articles, 12-51-00 gets to talking with the engineer about his line of work. Hearing that the younger man was in some way connected to the film industry, the older man announces that he had a collection of older pictures - on film - on the second floor of his two-story wood shop out back. Perusing this collection, at a later date, 12-51-00 realizes he has found a picture thought lost. This picture is F.W. Murnau's 4 Devils. Apparently, 12-51-00 suggests to the engineer that he donate the print to preservationists. He declines. 12-51-00 agonizes over this for a spell before soliciting advice how best to proceed from the denizens of the Criterion Forum. Some back and forth dialog commences. On the third day of this back and forth, 12-51-00 posts his final message to the world and is never heard from - on that forum - again.

    His announcement generated a great deal of interest and speculation among the sort of people who would be excited by that bit of news. Almost immediately, however, the disbelief set in. Within hours of 12-51-00's posting blackout, suspicion of a hoax began to consume the denizens of that forum. Within days, the claim was dismissed as a hoax and for several years thereafter, the denizens of that forum cursed his name at regular intervals.

    Personally, I was already engaged in research related to 4 Devils, when I became appraised of this 'hoax' and Tacoma's role in it. Being as I am a resident of Tacoma, I had a different reaction to the details provided by 12-51-00. As a local, who had already invested some personal interest and time to the matter of the collapse of the first Narrows span, I recognized the bridge collapse and the story of the fraudulent insurance policy. While the first event is well known, the insurance scam not so much. In combination with other details, I found sufficient grounds to launch an investigation. After soliciting the input of interested parties, I learned no such attempt was made in 2007, though it was discussed.

    In any case, I could expedite a resolution were I to touch base with 12-51-00. That being said, I have to deliberate for some time the best way to go about doing this. I'm a genealogist, actually, and I have to comport myself in a professional manner. Preserving this individual's anonymity is paramount, any compromise I would regard as a personal failure. Some of those people on the Criterion Forum believe this individual to be scum. Naturally, I do not. If he trolled them, I can begrudgingly admire his success. If he was being an honest broker, then he is to be commended. I am not interested in making him some kind of public whipping boy.

    I was very reluctant to solicit information in so public a manner, and for the longest time I didn't regard 12-51-00's input as being all that important. After all, I had enough clues to confine an investigation to where I live. However, it has become all too apparent that the pool of candidates regarding the identity of the engineer runs in to the thousands. Time is of the essence. This man, if he is alive today, is somewhere around 85 years old. The films themselves are combustible and a fire hazard. A change in environment poses a risk to lives and property. Needless to say, my investigation - comprised as it is of one man: myself - requires taking shortcuts.

    If you were to visit my profile, you'd see I signed up for this forum last year. I gave a great deal of thought to the idea of taking this step and only after I had exhausted other channels. I sought the opinion of an administrator of these forums before posting.

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      #17
      So it was al about a lost film 4 Devils then? How strange. Good luck tracking it down, do you work for the studio per chance?

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        #18
        This strikes me as the long con. Trolling extraordinaire. Forum names are rarely totally unique.

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          #19
          Originally posted by gunrock View Post
          This strikes me as the long con. Trolling extraordinaire. Forum names are rarely totally unique.
          It's always been a likely possibility. Nonetheless, on the off-chance the claim was made in good faith, I felt it deserved a proper vetting.

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            #20
            Fascinating. Reminds me of the rumours of London After Midnight being found under a different title in an old archive, but not recognised. Or Hat's Off being in the possession of a private collector in France.

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              #21
              Glad you posted back, Astropolis. I read that post in the voice of Vincent Price in mellow mode, I can't explain why. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction and thanks for posting something so genuinely mysterious and intriguing, hope you eventually get to the bottom of it!

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                #22
                I'm just waiting for the opportunity to invest in order to save this relic. perhaps the poster will need to fly around the world, following the next clue. How exciting.

                Long con. Bang on the money there.

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                  #23
                  Awesome thread.

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                    #24
                    Some of those people on the Criterion Forum believe this individual to be scum.
                    People from Bradford do have that reputation.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Astropolis View Post
                      It's always been a likely possibility. Nonetheless, on the off-chance the claim was made in good faith, I felt it deserved a proper vetting.
                      I meant you, sir. I believe this to be the work of a master troll or con-artiste extrordinnaire (or perhaps just a fellow from rllmuk looking for a few laughs).

                      Either way, registering 13 months ago was a master stroke. The polite but stern and serious air to your posts conjures up an impression of an official or a professional investigator (or at least our TV cop show-led expectations of such a person) and the "I've hesitated but now find myself with no choice" line is a good one.

                      But ultimately it's your claim of urgency ("time is of the essence!") that puts this firmly back into the Nigerian scammer territory.

                      Intriguing back story though, I give you 419/10. See me after school (I have a briefcase full blood diamonds but have lost the key, maybe you can help me pay for a locksmith to open it and you can claim 10% of the value).
                      Last edited by gunrock; 01-09-2015, 13:35.

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                        #26
                        Lol.

                        Originally posted by gunrock View Post
                        The polite but stern and serious air to your posts conjures up an impression of an official or a professional investigator (or at least our TV cop show-led expectations of such a person) and the "I've hesitated but now find myself with no choice" line is a good one.
                        The unrealistic high-falutin' style is great. " I was unaware this thread endured and only became aware of its defiant perpetuation". Oh yeah? Either someone's pulling our collective leg or a real-life Mr Burns.
                        Last edited by endo; 01-09-2015, 19:04.

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                          #27
                          Blood Diamonds

                          Originally posted by gunrock View Post
                          I meant you, sir. I believe this to be the work of a master troll or con-artiste extrordinnaire (or perhaps just a fellow from rllmuk looking for a few laughs).

                          Either way, registering 13 months ago was a master stroke. The polite but stern and serious air to your posts conjures up an impression of an official or a professional investigator (or at least our TV cop show-led expectations of such a person) and the "I've hesitated but now find myself with no choice" line is a good one.

                          But ultimately it's your claim of urgency ("time is of the essence!") that puts this firmly back into the Nigerian scammer territory.

                          Intriguing back story though, I give you 419/10. See me after school (I have a briefcase full blood diamonds but have lost the key, maybe you can help me pay for a locksmith to open it and you can claim 10% of the value).
                          Speaking as a person who has to persuasively write proposals on an almost daily basis, any style critique is more than welcome. I'll certainly take your advice under consideration.

                          I feel moved to correct you on a few false assumptions and unwarranted criticism.

                          First of all, my appeal to urgency is certainly warranted for the reasons I spelled out. I am, as I said, looking for a very elderly person. Elderly people have this tendency to do this thing called 'die'. The elderly person I am looking for allegedly happens to have charge of combustible materials. It's not simply the threat posed by the one picture I'm looking for. Your good 125100 stated this was just one nitrate 35mm motion picture among many. One goes up, they all go up. It's an explosive brew and it can take out a batch of houses. As I have specified, my goals are three-fold: to find the initial claimant, a), find the engineer, b), and recover the film elements, c). For your Nigerian scammer analogy to work, an appeal to finances would have to fit in somewhere there, as well as a wild story unsupported by evidence. I have made no such appeal to finance, nor would I. And my story - while certainly wild - is in fact supported by my link to the forum where the initial claim was made. Anyone here familiar with the person I am looking for can figure out the links between this 125100's posting history on that forum and their posting history here.

                          Second of all, I can live with criticism of being too polite.

                          Third, I'm fairly certain I mentioned being a genealogist. There's very little about genealogy that approximates glamour. I spend most of my time in that regard with the elderly, which may explain my prose somewhat. That's usually the kind of investigative work I'm tasked with.

                          Fourth, I find the modern, generic policier insulting in its exposition of "perfect" super-cops. Here in the States, it's egregiously bad. The cultural trend here is towards producing submissive, meek civilians proud of their subordinate status. Cop worship is rampant. These ridiculous cop shows play a role there. I've watched enough English, Australian, Scandinavian, and Far East cop shows to see that you folks and folks around the world are being pummeled by the same kind of nonsense we are. While you're entitled to your impressions, in actual fact you're quite wide of the mark. Real investigative work is grinding, hardly remunerative, and usually fruitless. An illustration of the time investment demanded is, again, the fact that I signed up here last year. At the time, I was parsing 125100's commenting history to determine initially whether they were the same 125100s. Satisfied that they were, I then had to determine whether any of the information would benefit my research. It did. Then, in an effort to expedite a conclusion, I had to take the unpalatable step of publicly soliciting information. It does, in fact, compromise my position somewhat should I find this person/these people, and it was not taken lightly. For starters, the threat is real that the person behind 125100 might see it, go into lockdown, and prove totally elusive. That's just one risk.

                          Also, if I've given the impression I'm trying to sound like a cop, well then, I've failed in life if that's my demeanor. My niece married a cop. He's an asshole and so are his friends.

                          There may be a troll at root here, though. You're right about that. 125100. But what if 125100 wasn't trolling? There we are. That has been my dilemma. However, I've received the information I came here to solicit, so I am off. I'm well aware that having received the information I was looking for, there is no necessity to respond as I have. But if I have learned something about posting etiquette from 125100's Criterion Forum bombshell, it is that people prefer a climax. If I'm successful in my endeavors, you will all probably hear about it. If I am not, you won't. There's your resolution. It's more than 125100 offered the Criterion Forum.

                          I appreciate all the help and the kind words and the humor, particularly Kit's.
                          Last edited by Astropolis; 01-09-2015, 17:11. Reason: Insertion of word "allegedly". It improves the accuracy of the sentence.

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                            #28
                            That's enough Inglourious Basterds for you.

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                              #29
                              I'd just like to say that I adore how you write. It's quite beautiful and few are as eloquent on any message board. We have lost a flair for language and it is time we reclaimed it. Good for you, sir. Good for you. I hope you find your missing film.
                              Last edited by Dogg Thang; 01-09-2015, 17:36.

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                                #30
                                This thread is one of the coolest I've seen on here. It reminds me of the book Pattern Recognition by William Gibson, where there is similar forum based sleuthing.

                                Lame it got crapped on. Who cares if it's fake, i'm enjoying reading it.

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