looking for a decent alternative to XRGB mini

[wakka]

QC can you not post again until you know what you are doing please.



I have a question for the video scaling heads: how does Dreamcast VGA through the Gefen VGA to DVI (or a good quality equivalent) compare to Dreamcast RGB through the Framemeister?

[S3M]

Ha ha ha, sorry buddy! Didn't mean to confuse the issue.
I just tried to collate some info in my 45-minute lunch break and those were the only videos that showed the LKV363A in use, rather than white-gloved people turning the unit around in their hands. See?

Nice no worries, I just like to make sure we have the most fair comparisons going, if you want I don't mind knocking up a video comparison for you of that scaler QC is there a certain game on the SNES or Mega Drive you would like to see, between scaled and unscaled footage to make your own mind up?

That way you can see it in action fully and make up your own mind.

wakka not that I own an Framemeister to see the quality of the Dreamcast scaled by it but RGB Scart never looks as good as VGA even when not scaled from my own experience. For me I only ever play the Dreamcast via VGA these days, long as your TV does 480P you don't even really need to scale VGA it just looks great by standard. Haven't used standard RGB Scart with it in years.

Grandia 2 recorded via VGA as a sample:

[dvdx2]

Your talking up the frameister like it gives a 100 times better picture quality it doesn't it's not a huge improvement having used one myself. It doesn't give a sharper picture in terms of still frames when paused, it does however look better in motion making the picture a fraction sharper and cleaner.

Only worth investing in if you can splash out ?215 with no worries, the fact it doesn't work with quite a few games is a big problem for the price tag. Part of the problem is the tech in it is quite out of date and really you should wait for the newer model, which is likely due out in the near future. The OP has a budget of ?50 you can't get a framemeister at that price. The framemeister has to be shipped from Japan, at least post a link to where you can buy it dvdx2, so people can see the cost upfront: https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit

(Also should be mentioned it support 21 pins RGB so requires an adaptar for euro scart which is another ?15)

Also before slagging off that Youtuber you should see his review of the Framemeister he does rate it quite highly and you might learn something from his framemeister review as he clearly know his tech, based on some of his retro videos.

As mentioned in my last post if you want scanlines go for a CRT, as no LCD can reproduce them correctly.

If you want perfect 240p and 480i then you should checkout the DVDO VP30, doesn't support RGB Scart but does S-Video and Component also feature a huge range of gaming and screen options. Used to cost around ?1000 at release but flopped as a result, it's a very nice bit of kit however. Ebay only these days but support 720p and 1080p.

Talking of the PS2 you really need a component scaler for best quality.

Also have one of those scalers QualityChimp, I believe Lenkeng are the ones behind most of the unofficial scalers, currently available on the market. Has the same issues as I mentioned for the RGB scaler, but still looks great for the cost.

Sorry QC that footage you posted is terrible, best not to post video unless you know the recording source it looks like someone recorded it at 480p then used their video editor to change the resoultion to 1080p, so it's going to look terrible.

PAL Nes video using composite scaler:

This is the NES using no scaler at all just using a raw composite record:

N64 videos using it via S-Video and scaler:

S-video alone no scaler:

I'll leave it to you to judge QC which you think is better between the standard footage I posted or those using the scaler. Fullscreen for the best results QC.

Unless you are taking screen grabs, motion is the most important thing about upscaling. if your not fussy about image quality / on a tight budget and dont mind interlacing and other issues, i'm sure the scaler you are using is fine - but the reason people go for the mini, is because of its 240p handling for snes/md etc. Set it up right, and personally i think it looks better than a Crt. Yes they are expensive to buy new. (second hand is a better option and i bought mine here for ?150 and one recently sold for ?170 inc plug and play accessories). Yes scanlines are emulated but do wonders to nasty edges that upscaling to a higher res bring. Without them it can look like you are playing an emulator.

[gunrock]

QC can you not post again until you know what you are doing please.



I have a question for the video scaling heads: how does Dreamcast VGA through the Gefen VGA to DVI (or a good quality equivalent) compare to Dreamcast RGB through the Framemeister?

Well, full disclosure; I'm selling one of these in the sales thread ATM, so you could assume I have some bias, but I'd imagine the Gefen scaling of 480p VGA is superior to the Framemeister scaling from a 480i RGB signal.
BTW, I'm selling because I have two of them and only need the one.

[QualityChimp]

Hooked up the XBox via SCART and the picture is fine. Scanlines on Coinops and everything without needing an upscaler, so I'm all good.

Thanks gang!

Good topic, though. A cheaper XRGB Mini equivalent would clear up.

[wakka]

Well, full disclosure; I'm selling one of these in the sales thread ATM, so you could assume I have some bias, but I'd imagine the Gefen scaling of 480p VGA is superior to the Framemeister scaling from a 480i RGB signal.
BTW, I'm selling because I have two of them and only need the one.

Haha, I wondered if you might respond to this!

I would imagine you are right - I just wondered how close it was in terms of PQ.

[Jaz]

Great thing about the FM is everything can be hooked up to a single box. It is expensive, but what in retrogaming isn't. You get what you pay for and for me it was worth every cent.

[Leon Retro]

@ Leon - what settings are you using for 480i?

I'm using a good quality RGB scart cable.

These are the settings I use with the PS2:

HDMI output: 720p
Image Mode: Natural
Visual Set/Auto Scaler: Video
Sync_Set/Sync Mode: Auto
Colour Set: Sharpness +1

Turning the 'Auto Scaler' off and tuning things yourself can be useful. I haven't used the FM with my PS2 very often, so maybe I need to fine tune the settings. I bought the FM for use primarily with 16-bit machines: Super Nintendo, Mega Drive etc... Which the FM loves to work with.

[S3M]

Unless you are taking screen grabs, motion is the most important thing about upscaling. if your not fussy about image quality / on a tight budget and dont mind interlacing and other issues, i'm sure the scaler you are using is fine - but the reason people go for the mini, is because of its 240p handling for snes/md etc. Set it up right, and personally i think it looks better than a Crt. Yes they are expensive to buy new. (second hand is a better option and i bought mine here for ?150 and one recently sold for ?170 inc plug and play accessories). Yes scanlines are emulated but do wonders to nasty edges that upscaling to a higher res bring. Without them it can look like you are playing an emulator.

The cheap ones do 240p fine it's just that they don't do 240p effects well when the game is not running at 240p. Interestingly it not an issue with the effect itself but a scaler issue. If you scale the video back to the correct size of 320x240 the effects looks correct, but no one wants to watch a video at that size as it's just to small. SNES, NES and Mega Drive don't have many games with that issue so video from those consoles on the whole is fine as they just output 240p, NEOGEO and Saturn cause a few more problems but as the effects are only a few seconds it's not a huge loss.

Still looks great at 1080p for video which is all I need, doubt I'll ever invest in a framemeister until they address the software issues for it. Which I suspect won't be resolved till the 4k or 8k version is released at some point in the not to distance future. I know from reviews the framemeister has issues at 1080p, which would explain why you are all running it at 720p. Perfect for gaming on a LCD, not so good for the capture set up, which is what I only use and need the scalers for.