The Marvel Cinematic Multiverse

[Neon Ignition]

The costume for Moon Knight looks to have leaked:

->Open Spoiler<-

[cutmymilk]

Is morbius ans venom now MCU? Just looked at post#1...

Just saw your explanation. I don't think that means they are MCU films personally. MCU should be Marvel Studios only.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, they're one and the same universe. The trailer for Morbius has links to Homecoming and Far From Home so them having Hardy appear would quickly sew all of their existing properties into the MCU in a single film. Feige is involved in Sony's planning as well so none of this will be happening without Marvel's input and agreement. The only films with a question mark around them currently are the Spider-Man trilogy and two Amazing Spider-Man films depending on what happens in No Way Home

[Dogg Thang]

The existence of the multiverse implies universes that exist but aren’t technically in the MCU. Otherwise it would be the MCM.

Anyway, I watched Loki and really enjoyed it. First Marvel show I’ve actually watched. The two leads were superb (obviously Hiddleston was going to be good but I don’t know who plays Sylvie and she was great) and it just kept things engaging all the way through. The last episode was too talky but it left all the exposition until the final episode. I liked it! Thought it was very well made.

Got me curious about what it’s like for an actor to get offered a Marvel role now though. They make so many films that, if you’re a known actor, it feels like you’ll get a call eventually. So if you get offered a role in an episode of something like this, would you make some excuse in case you got offered a bigger film role later?

[Neon Ignition]

It would but Venom and Morbius appear to take place pre-Multiverse with the characters already pre-existing. To be honest, as soon as Sony and Disney ironed out their contract issues this was a lock in. Sony was headed down this path regardless via Peter Parker so having No Way Home and Doctor Strange 2 etc crossover Spider-Man so heavily highlights how both are fine with the road Sony is headed down.

I've not given What If? a watch yet, reactions seem to be very mixed on that one

[Dogg Thang]

Well we’re getting into nerd nonsense but, unless it’s a WandaVision plot line, there doesn’t seem to be a pre-multiverse. Many versions of these characters can exist simultaneously and so it’s now possible that a world with Venom can contain a Tom Holland Spider-Man without the MCU containing a Venom. It’s an easy out if they ever want a distinction and means you still can’t take it for granted that something is MCU just because there is a crossover. It has made me wonder if the MCU is part of the Tommy Westphal Universe yet.

[Neon Ignition]

If it weren't for Marvel's involvement I'd be more inclined to factor in Sony including references just for the sake of riding the MCU's coat tails with its own solo films but they're starting to get more on the nose and the other factor is that many of these projects are arriving out of sync with when they were originally intended to. For example, Morbius now has links to Venom, Homecoming and Far From Home and arrives early 2022. However, the film has been batted back and back from an intended release of July 2020 which pre-dates anything Marvel had that remotely acknowledged the Multi-verse as being a consideration.

It's still possible Sony is being cheeky but given Morbius is using the same types of cross film references taken directly from the MCU Spider-Man films it would either be the studio linking their characters directly into the existing MCU or doing so via a multi-verse explaination where Sony's releases like Morbius would have been the audiences first introduction to the concept so as to explain the characters and references.

In a way I can imagine that Sony's films may yet end up being a bit of a god-send for Disney. It could make things like crossovers easier to handle for characters like Deadpool without diluting that character or risking the image of the family friendly existing Disney owned ones.

[Dogg Thang]

That’s exactly it. That’s why I think it’s still probably a case that it’s not a given that something is MCU until Marvel says it is. It has given them a way they can do their own timeline management and pick and choose what they integrate and how, exactly like with Deadpool.

It does feel like the whole multiverse thing was front of mind by Infinity War at the very least (Strange kind of goes there) and that was brewing for a long, long time so I don’t feel like it’s a new creation in spite of Spider-Verse demonstrating its potential and kicking them into using it.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, presumably we're headed down that track partially because both Marvel and DC have histories of it but also I guess because after IW/Endgame Marvel needs something to aim for that kind of ups the ante from the stakes of Endgame. People love the portal moment in that film so presumably in their heads you can spin this for years and when we get to the next saga culmination in Avengers 7 or what not you can recreate that hype having multiverse variants of the current heroes, resurrected Steve Rogers, Spider-Men etc all emerging in a multi-worlds ending cataclysm event

[Golgo]

I think the multiverse direction is pish and the prospect of a same-but-different Iron Man/Black Widow from a same-but-different alt universe will just dilute the interest as they're not the 'real' ones and wear thin very quickly, like that pig in Spiderverse. I expect I may be very wrong in that, though. Still, I'd suggest they just make a film called Marvel: Resurrection and bring all the dead folk back to this universe. Every one of them. Use magic or science it doesn't matter, and ultimately no less ridiculous than the multiverse dodge. Marvel: Bob's your Uncle. Maybe that's what they should call it.

[Dogg Thang]

Marvel needs something to aim for that kind of ups the ante from the stakes of Endgame.

Yep, although like Golgo I find myself thinking it does the exact opposite and they are already guilty of using it for this purpose by... (spoiler for Endgame)

->Open Spoiler<-

instantly replacing Gamora in Endgame.

I know it's this way in the comics too, and that's a big reason why I don't read most superhero comics, but the MCU is already guilty of having a total lack of consequences, rendering stories weaker. This is an easy out for just about any action taken in any Marvel movie now so I feel like stakes go down rather than up.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, it has to be done in an interesting way and Gamora definitely wasn't that. Instead the final culmination of that storyline will have Starlord chasing and romancing a variant of her which kind of washes over the drama of her loss and wastes screentime in that adventure. Doesn't matter what the film or TV show is or even if it makes any difference to the arc, the simple knowledge of it not being the original weakens the investment.

Doctor Who: "You are a special being that the Time Lords discovered and stole the regeneration ability from"
Yeah, not really, that special being was killed without note years ago and we're watching a clone

Loads of shows have done it and it's like a little irritating narrative ear worm ever after. Daft because it shouldn't annoy but it does just because it inherently undermines what you're invested in.

It can work, like in Spider-verse, if it's used to introduce elements the existing canon can't have. I guess it's like having Gwen Stacey die and be a formative part of Peter's journey but then introduce Spider-Gwen and use that to have a unique character introduced as well as how that affects others. Or how it was used to lynch pin Kingpin's motives. But it's very easy for them to fall down the Gamora trap and just undermine events too.

I'm hoping that for the most part DC is doing it largely just to wipe the board clean, with Marvel I assume there are big plans down the line with it but its a hard balance to use it for moments of impact when those moments will largely tempt them to do 'It's Robert Downey Jr OMG!'

[Dogg Thang]

I watched Black Widow last night. Generally, pretty good. Florence Pugh was great. I really liked her character. And considering the main character's story is over, it still managed to tell a story that was enjoyable to watch. I didn't feel like the end parts were all that strong. It's like it didn't make the most of the ingredients or maybe it's that the Ray Winstone character wasn't great. I feel like we didn't really get to see the Red Guardian or Taskmaster really do their thing, like they didn't fully pay them off. Still, it was a good watch.

[teddymeow]

Florence Pugh is always great!!

[Paddy]

I watched Black Widow last night. Generally, pretty good. Florence Pugh was great. I really liked her character. And considering the main character's story is over, it still managed to tell a story that was enjoyable to watch. I didn't feel like the end parts were all that strong. It's like it didn't make the most of the ingredients or maybe it's that the Ray Winstone character wasn't great. I feel like we didn't really get to see the Red Guardian or Taskmaster really do their thing, like they didn't fully pay them off. Still, it was a good watch.

Glad you got see the film recently. It had some good parts to it and the casting was decent on the whole. Part of me can't help but feel it should have seen a release between Civil War and Infinity War (I appreciate that other factors prevented that from happening and at least the film finally saw an official release).

Its a shame that Taskmaster's introduction/early scenes were the most exciting, then the character fell to the wayside somewhat as the film continued when it should have built to an intense climax. Overall the film was an enjoyable watch but feelings of superhero fatigue were looming a little here and there. Here's hoping that Shang-Chi and Eternals can inject some life into the MCU again.