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Why microtransactions, IAPs and LootBoxes are here to stay thread

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    Originally posted by Cassius_Smoke View Post
    Epic has been fined $520m for unfair and misleading practices to 'dupe' people into Loot box purchases in Fortnite. Those 'people' mainly being kids.



    Just to add some examples sited in the law suite.
    Purchases can be made during the loading screen, with it accepting commands from the keyboard/controller, without the persons consent.
    A preview items screen defaults to confirm purchase were the cancel button was.
    'Dark Patterns' used to make it overly difficult to back out from the store, but one click away from purchase.
    I bet mobsters are kicking themselves for missing out of the racket of the century.

    Comment


      This is hilarious

      Fans of Marvel's Avengers are complaining over the latest addition to the game's paid-for premium skin collection: a Ma…


      Their selling a skin that's the same as another skin but with a bit off it missing and players are kicking off

      i didn't even think this game was still being played.


      Comment


        Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
        This is hilarious

        Fans of Marvel's Avengers are complaining over the latest addition to the game's paid-for premium skin collection: a Ma…


        Their selling a skin that's the same as another skin but with a bit off it missing and players are kicking off

        i didn't even think this game was still being played.
        That's bizarre.

        Guild Wars 2 often has skin variants which do basic things; it's just to do with how their skins are built - but they give you all the variants in one purchase. It's crazy to think people wouldn't complain if you sold the same thing twice.

        Comment


          $14 for a skin?! Fourteen dollars!! One skin?!

          Comment


            That's actually pretty standard. Fortnite and COD skins can be more than that.

            Seems bonkers, I know, but people are apparently happy to pay it.

            Comment


              Originally posted by wakka View Post
              That's actually pretty standard. Fortnite and COD skins can be more than that.

              Seems bonkers, I know, but people are apparently happy to pay it.
              It's crazy to think that skins used to be things you unlocked in games, Fighting games where notorious for putting skins for characters behind more and more convoluted challenges yet now all this stuff is striped out and sold in the storefront or used as pre-order incentives. ive never really understood how they can justify that the cost of 3 skins is the same price as a full game. when its the choice of buying 3 £20 character skins or a new game full of content id always choose the latter.
              Last edited by Lebowski; 18-01-2023, 16:23.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cassius_Smoke View Post
                $14 for a skin?! Fourteen dollars!! One skin?!
                In-game purchases don't work like that; at least, that's not how they approach it.

                The model they use is more like Games Workshop (well, it's just called The Warhammer Shop now ), where the shop is totally free to use; you can go into the shop with your army, then hang out, paint and play effectively for free - but a squad box, containing 10 models, is £30 despite the plastic and box only costing maybe a couple of quid in gross weight (even the labour isn't a huge expense).

                In those games, a skin can be expensive, but you might play many hours of a game which was otherwise free, using that skin.

                What's utter bull**** about The Avengers is that the game is not free. Everyone playing it has already given Squeenix ~£30.

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                  Yeah. It makes me feel old, to be honest. I don't get why you would fork out hard cash for what we used to call 'costumes', but clearly people seem to find value in it. I've been playing a fair bit of CoD MW2 recently and you see loads of people running round in them. They sell really well.

                  Originally posted by Asura
                  In-game purchases don't work like that; at least, that's not how they approach it.

                  The model they use is more like Games Workshop (well, it's just called The Warhammer Shop now ), where the shop is totally free to use; you can go into the shop with your army, then hang out, paint and play effectively for free - but a squad box, containing 10 models, is £30 despite the plastic and box only costing maybe a couple of quid in gross weight (even the labour isn't a huge expense).

                  In those games, a skin can be expensive, but you might play many hours of a game which was otherwise free, using that skin.

                  What's utter bull**** about The Avengers is that the game is not free. Everyone playing it has already given Squeenix ~£30.


                  I don't really find it immoral to sell them, whether the game is free or not. If people are willing to pay for them, why wouldn't you sell them?

                  The dark UX patterns designed to drive the purchases, like always making you buy a little bit more in-game currency than you actually need for a purchase so you've got some left over, are another matter though. They really are bull****.

                  Last edited by wakka; 18-01-2023, 16:24.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by wakka View Post
                    Yeah. It makes me feel old, to be honest. I don't get why you would fork out hard cash for what we used to call 'costumes', but clearly people seem to find value in it. I've been playing a fair bit of CoD MW2 recently and you see loads of people running round in them. They sell really well.
                    I can see what you mean, but there's a wrinkle here in that the skins only exist because people can buy them. It's certainly true that in Dead or Alive 2 on Dreamcast, characters had a few costumes (with the women having more because of course they did) but they still topped out at maybe 8 each.

                    There are 1,300 skins in Fortnite, and while plenty of them are variants, that's still tons more than a pricepoint game can ever have. No-one is going to own them all (that's not the point), each individual user probably only has a few per season for a hardcore user, 5-6 overall for a midcore user and then millions have between zero and 1 (I only have 1 premium skin on Fortnite).

                    I mean, it's fair to say that it's a generational thing; but then, we put money into Final Fight in the 80s and got nothing apart from the experience. It's really just a way of (1) offsetting the expense so you're not paying all the time and (2) letting wealthy players pay more and less cash-happy players still play. It can be argued that's predatory (people say it "monetises discontent") and that's fair. I'm just breaking down why people buy it; it's not all a scam - it's a transaction which, for some people, is worthwhile.
                    Last edited by Asura; 18-01-2023, 16:28.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by wakka View Post
                      Yeah. It makes me feel old, to be honest. I don't get why you would fork out hard cash for what we used to call 'costumes', but clearly people seem to find value in it. I've been playing a fair bit of CoD MW2 recently and you see loads of people running round in them. They sell really well.
                      i think with online games theirs a bit of one upman ship to it, i know fortnite was particularly toxic with people getting bullied for using default skins and players where made fun of for being poor and called "no skins" When you think the average fortnite player was preteen and teenage boys playing with school friends online the bullying and teasing is right on your doorstep.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
                        i think with online games theirs a bit of one upman ship to it, i know fortnite was particularly toxic with people getting bullied for using default skins and players where made fun of for being poor and called "no skins" When you think the average fortnite player was preteen and teenage boys playing with school friends online the bullying and teasing is right on your doorstep.
                        Yeah, this is the "manufacturing discontent" thing. Kids got bullied at my school for having hand-me-down uniforms or not having the right shoes.

                        Can you imagine though, going back to ~1991, and telling the kids that in 2020, the cool kids will be the ones with the best loot in a videogame?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Asura View Post
                          I can see what you mean, but there's a wrinkle here in that the skins only exist because people can buy them. It's certainly true that in Dead or Alive 2 on Dreamcast, characters had a few costumes (with the women having more because of course they did) but they still topped out at maybe 8 each.

                          There are 1,300 skins in Fortnite, and while plenty of them are variants, that's still tons more than a pricepoint game can ever have. No-one is going to own them all (that's not the point), each individual user probably only has a few per season for a hardcore user, 5-6 overall for a midcore user and then millions have between zero and 1 (I only have 1 premium skin on Fortnite).

                          I mean, it's fair to say that it's a generational thing; but then, we put money into Final Fight in the 80s and got nothing apart from the experience. It's really just a way of (1) offsetting the expense so you're not paying all the time and (2) letting wealthy players pay more and less cash-happy players still play. It can be argued that's predatory (people say it "monetises discontent") and that's fair. I'm just breaking down why people buy it; it's not all a scam - it's a transaction which, for some people, is worthwhile.
                          Not saying they're a scam, to be clear.

                          I just wouldn't ever buy one, and I have no idea why I would ever buy one, which makes me feel old, cos younger folks like buying them. And I attribute that to me getting older and becoming out of touch, much like my parents were baffled by the limitless appeal of Pokémon to me in the 90s!

                          So I agree that there is definitely a generational element. The arcade point is a good comparison.

                          Originally posted by Asura
                          It's really just a way of (1) offsetting the expense so you're not paying all the time and (2) letting wealthy players pay more and less cash-happy players still play.
                          I'll be honest here, I don't think this explains why people buy them. It explains, in part, why developers implement them.

                          I think people buy them for a range of factors, part of which is cultural zeitgeistyness, but none of which I can personally emphathise with.

                          To go back to my previous example, my parents thought £2.50 for a booster pack of 11 Pokémon cards was an insane waste of money, but I couldn't get enough of them at the time.

                          It's not a bad thing, it's just...a thing.

                          Originally posted by Lebowski
                          i think with online games theirs a bit of one upman ship to it, i know fortnite was particularly toxic with people getting bullied for using default skins and players where made fun of for being poor and called "no skins" When you think the average fortnite player was preteen and teenage boys playing with school friends online the bullying and teasing is right on your doorstep.


                          Yeah, definitely a thing I've heard about as well and I'm sure for some kids that's a factor.

                          Last edited by wakka; 18-01-2023, 16:43.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by wakka View Post
                            I just wouldn't ever buy one, and I have no idea why I would ever buy one,
                            Do you wanna look like Chun Li?

                            Comment


                              Haha, I do see the appeal I guess. But I would rather spend £20 on four pints

                              Comment


                                Got the new Streetfighter the Duel mobile game,

                                Seeing loads of the fighting game youtubers promoting and playing it and i think i am going crazy as they promote it lol. I pre reg for it and tried it from the start and it is basically AFK arena in another skin,It is not a traditional fighting game in anyway it is the typical mobile game fare. But it is so close to AFK arena in many aspects.

                                As usual it starts of quick with making progress but then the grind really really sets in, it is pay to win as usual as some people have upgraded so fast there is no way could do that normally plus even early on there are limited time quests that can only be done with certain high level characters which i doubt people would get normally, and there are so many currencies. Also the way it tries to form habits for the player eg you get rewards you can pick up if not playing but only for a max of 12 hours plus every time u log in the amount of menus you have to go through to get the "freebies" is mad.

                                So yeah typical mobile game but what was making me crazy is the people i respected playing it and not calling them out for it

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