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Why microtransactions, IAPs and LootBoxes are here to stay thread

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    Why microtransactions, IAPs and LootBoxes are here to stay thread

    I can't find the old 'why microtransactions are here to stay (probably)' thread. So I assume it has been lost. Apart from the fact it was one of my favourite threads (to have a moan!). 2017 was the year of the Lootbox and as such, I figure we still need a thread to discuss this very hot topic.

    I did take the liberty of updating the thread title although please feel free to reprimand me if we should be naming the thread to something else.

    *****

    To start us off, a story that broke overnight on PUBG; 80 years for a sleeveless jacket: PUBG's loot box rates disclosed
    Meanwhile, rarest item in new premium crate could cost $1,562.50 to acquire
    .

    I thought the best response was the first reply in the ResetEra thread 'Great, another free-to-play game asking for an entry fee up-front'

    #2
    Honestly, I do think it's here to stay as it's mostly an extension of DLC/Expansion Packs, but I think 2018 will be the year the tide turns and the approach softens dramatically. Too many games started to be built with it all forming part of the foundation of the project and it was too easy for companies to get called out on it. The financial, economic and reputational hit EA received in the last month or two was big and though they will brush it off most companies aren't in a position to weather those kinds of events especially when it's hard enough for most devs to stay afloat.

    I imagine lootboxes will increasingly become something added post-release etc to build on success but not have a bad launch mostly tied to their inclusion from the off. Like freemium, dlc etc it'll stay but companies will get less in your face blatantly greedy about its handling.

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry the old thread was lost, but the new title is fine.

      I also feel strongly about this. Keep the updates coming.

      I'm motivated more to get Monster Hunter World because of their "no lootbox" policy and free additional monsters in a few months after release.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
        I'm motivated more to get Monster Hunter World because of their "no lootbox" policy and free additional monsters in a few months after release.
        You'll see a lot of that in 6-12 months, but I believe some of it (particularly from publishers like Capcom) is cynical. Don't be taken in by it.

        Including RNG lootbox features in games still makes companies money even now. The Guild Wars 2 community was in uproar a month ago about how the new mount skins were behind a lootbox-esque system, but a month later, run through any map in the game and you'll see dozens and dozens of players who have bought the mounts.

        However, given the recent furore, companies have two choices - include the boxes, make money from them and lose money from customers who are opposed to them (we'll call this "value A"), or make a public show of not having them and attracting more customers (we'll call that "value B").

        For some games, value B is going to be more than value A.

        They'll promote it like it's for the customer's benefit, but it isn't.

        For the indies, or specific games, it might be, however. Also for some companies who have foresight. But that certainly doesn't include the likes of EA, Capcom or the rest of them.

        The titles that really cared about the customer were the ones which put up a fight before people started complaining; games like Titanfall 2.

        Comment


          #5
          If I'm honest, I'm really, really cynical and I think this generation is possibly going to be my last because I don't like the way things are going.

          I'm trying to be positive and hoping some companies just enjoy the thrill of seeing their games being played.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
            ..I think 2018 will be the year the tide turns and the approach softens dramatically. Too many games started to be built with it all forming part of the foundation of the project and it was too easy for companies to get called out on it. The financial, economic and reputational hit EA received in the last month or two was big and though they will brush it off most companies aren't in a position to weather those kinds of events especially when it's hard enough for most devs to stay afloat.
            Not sure they are going anywhere unless regulation or consumer protection becomes far stronger than it is now. Even EA brushed off the effect on their financials, which in itself is partial admission of the contributing factor they have on their profits. Despite all the uproar about Destiny 2, that game has still outsold and earned more that it's predecessor.

            I think smaller developers and publishers, or those who care (i.e. the makers of Dauntless, following their recent statement), will think twice about lootboxes but overall when billions are being made from them I don't think they are going anywhere. I think EA might just go cosmetic only lootboxes and not enable them at launch (their Forza 5 moment) but otherwise be just as aggressive as they have been.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
              If I'm honest, I'm really, really cynical and I think this generation is possibly going to be my last because I don't like the way things are going.

              I'm trying to be positive and hoping some companies just enjoy the thrill of seeing their games being played.
              I've said this a few times here, once consoles go all digital I'll bow out.

              Comment


                #8
                Bit depressing you would do that guys. Gaming is broader than just the mega titles that feature this crap!

                Not meaning to diminish this thread or the debate regarding these tactics, you understand. But seems a shame to quit contemporary gaming entirely because of them.
                Last edited by wakka; 10-01-2018, 16:52.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yea, I think it's still a great time to be a gamer. I said years ago on Overclockers UK forums it was a golden time for PC gaming and had some muppet who responded that the only PC 'great' gaming age was the late 1990's to early millennium and how I must be a youngster to make such a statement. My point was digital distribution, VR, increased online integration, crowd funding, independents etc. had all helped evolve gaming into an exciting place (obviously it helping with PC gaming being in rude health).

                  I do think you need to be selective in what you buy now though. I.e. less is more. Just avoid the stuff that does this. Even avoiding it there's still loads to play. That said the impact of all this can be felt. SW:BF2 might have been a corker without the f2p progression system. Or GTAV might have had some more great single player content if Rockstar didn't just chase the online cash.

                  Still hopefully regulation and greater consumer protection catches up with the industry.
                  Last edited by Digfox; 10-01-2018, 17:14.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    For every EA you have a shinning beacon like CD Projekt, i think we are seeing progress with micro transactions what we are seeing is company's push it too far and it costs them sales their is no point sacrificing sales at the expense of micro-transactions if your player base is so low that they make no money

                    I'm glad destiny is loosing players and that EA has had to cut the price of Star wars almost immediately to make up for lost sales, it shows that not all gamers are mindless drones that will buy the next big thing because it has a franchise they like attached to it.

                    Yeah Destiny two may of sold well but a lot of good will has been lost, i know loads of people that did buy the season pass but then i know loads that didnt who where massive destiny fans. i kind of wish i hadn't. id be surprised if a lot of players don't just bin it off once this dlc run is done.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Lebowski View Post
                      Yeah Destiny two may of sold well but a lot of good will has been lost, i know loads of people that did buy the season pass but then i know loads that didnt who where massive destiny fans. i kind of wish i hadn't. id be surprised if a lot of players don't just bin it off once this dlc run is done.
                      Definitely has been a noticeable backlash against Bungie and Activision but how that translates to impact on sales will be interesting and only time will tell. I assume any expansion (this year) will take a harder hit than the third game (2019, assuming they return to schedule).

                      As an aside that doesn't paint the videogame industry in a good light. Taken from this GI.biz article about a company; PlayMob, talking about some new social projects:

                      For all of the games industry's amazing and generous charitable endeavours, from Special Effect to Humble Bundle, it still contributes less money than any of the major entertainment industries.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mgear View Post
                        some muppet who responded that the only PC 'great' gaming age was the late 1990's to early millennium
                        I think I'd probably agree with that, tbh!
                        Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3: Arena, Kingpin, No One Lives Forever, Max Payne, Roller Coaster Tycoon, Jedi Knight III, Command & Conquer, Full Throttle, Red Alert, Diablo, Duke Nukem 3D, Grand Prix, Civ II, Riven, Age of Empires, Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Baldur's Gate, Commandos, Hidden & Dangerous, SimCity 3000, The Sims, Black & White and Return to Castle Wolfenstein!

                        Originally posted by Mgear View Post
                        I do think you need to be selective in what you buy now though. I.e. less is more. Just avoid the stuff that does this. Even avoiding it there's still loads to play. That said the impact of all this can be felt. SW:BF2 might have been a corker without the f2p progression system.
                        You're going to end up with a two-tier gaming experience where you can either play fairly basic Indie games or you can play polished big studio games, but accept there's an up-front cost, season pass, DLC, loot boxes and in-game purchases to add if you want anything other than a hobbled game that last for more than 3 months.

                        Originally posted by Mgear View Post
                        Still hopefully regulation and greater consumer protection catches up with the industry.
                        It's not going to happen.
                        The genie is out of the bottle.
                        Yeah, Star Wars BFII and Destiny 2 have less players, but they're not going to stop pushing their luck.

                        Remember Forza 5? You had to grind for years or pay real cash, then everybody complained and they did a u-turn?
                        Well here we are and EA and Bungie etc. are still trying to see how far we'll bend (over).

                        I also feel that there's some psychology involved where some people see these changes as a compassionate move by the publisher (Stockholm Syndrome?) or doing stuff not as bad as before seems OK, but they're still stripping a game down to maximise profits.

                        I think the phrase to use here is
                        Minimum Viable Product

                        "A minimum viable product (MVP) is the the most pared down version of a product that can still be released. An MVP has three key characteristics:
                        • It has enough value that people are willing to use it or buy it initially.
                        • It demonstrates enough future benefit to retain early adopters.
                        • It provides a feedback loop to guide future development.

                        The catch to this development technique is that it assumes that early adopters can see the vision or promise of the final product and provide the valuable feedback needed to guide developers forward.


                        This suggests that technically orientated products used by technical users may be most appropriate for this type of development technique."




                        Comment


                          #13
                          It's continuing a derail to the thread but the current PC era v past PC Golden Era, I'm 100% in the camp that the current state of PC gaming absolutely decimates the late 90's era. As strong as many of the 90's era games were they were niche and spoke to a particular audience, like they were big yet still existed within a bubble. I think the tech excitement carried a lot of the appeal as well in the same way that modern games are much better than 32/64 bit era games yet the advancements aren't as dramatic so nostalgia factors a lot into favouritism for that eras consoles and criticisms of what is released these days. Modern PC gaming... it's never seen the likes of the quality, broad diversity and selection available... I don't think any system has.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
                            As strong as many of the 90's era games were they were niche and spoke to a particular audience, like they were big yet still existed within a bubble
                            Personally I feel part of the mindset that venerates this era comes from people for whom they were that audience, and they're a bit jaded that the industry no longer caters to them as much as it once did.

                            Originally posted by Mgear View Post
                            Definitely has been a noticeable backlash against Bungie and Activision but how that translates to impact on sales will be interesting and only time will tell. I assume any expansion (this year) will take a harder hit than the third game (2019, assuming they return to schedule).
                            Certainly I see Bungie in a very different light now, since their staff departures and this whole thing over Destiny.

                            There seemed to be something of an astroturf PR thing with Destiny 1 to try and thank Bungie for the good bits and blame ActiBlizz for the bad bits, but personally I think that was a ploy. Bungie made the decision to go to Activision of their own volition; it's not like they were naive enough to think that wouldn't affect their games.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Asura View Post
                              Personally I feel part of the mindset that venerates this era comes from people for whom they were that audience, and they're a bit jaded that the industry no longer caters to them as much as it once did.



                              Certainly I see Bungie in a very different light now, since their staff departures and this whole thing over Destiny.

                              There seemed to be something of an astroturf PR thing with Destiny 1 to try and thank Bungie for the good bits and blame ActiBlizz for the bad bits, but personally I think that was a ploy. Bungie made the decision to go to Activision of their own volition; it's not like they were naive enough to think that wouldn't affect their games.
                              Personally I think Activision had a lot less to do with the monumental balls up that was D1 than people think. After all it’s not Activision that decides to reboot 2 years worth of work in the last 6 months before deadline, EVERY SINGLE GAME. Bungie only have bungie to blame for that 100% and they repeat the same pattern on every game they’ve ever made. 2 years worth of work only for the whole lot to be thrown out the window mear months before ship date with basically a whole game to sort out.

                              It worked on Halo: ce, that was an industry defining exception, all they have done since is waste huge amounts of their own time and reasouces repeating the same idiotic pattern.

                              It’s certinly back fireing now with D1 & D2 as they have set deadlines to meet, they certainly don’t seem organised enough to keep to them in a timely fashion.

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