Why microtransactions, IAPs and LootBoxes are here to stay thread

[Asura]

The reddit post has been taken down for being 'misleading', even though there's a moderator reply in /ps4 who states that they specifically won't take it down. It clearly generated much debate. However the amount of defenders on reddit, twitter and 'era of these freemium style mechanics in a £55 to £80 game is staggering although not surprising anymore. The sutafuge from NRS and WB is blatantly obvious.

So no wonder the water is heating up for us amphibians.

Just to say, whilst there definitely is botting going on that gets stuff voted up/down on Reddit (it'd be foolish to debate that) I'd encourage people to remember that there are people who like freemium mechanics, and those people don't feel deceived and aren't spending hundreds a month.

Of course, we might say those people have swallowed the kool-aid. That's a different thing. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that freemium mechanics are some kind of publisher conspiracy; these things have worked their way into games because there is a decent wedge of the public who, without complaining, are paying for them.

That's not a reason not to oppose them. I dislike freemium mechanics in AAA games myself (it's one of the reasons I buy so few of them these days), but a lot of the vitriol I see from the "core" gaming populace does paint this as some sort of a conspiracy. That kind of stuff is probably also going on (loads of marketing is doing that now after all) but it's happening because it's making money. It takes a big backlash to give a bloody nose like Battlefront.

[Dogg Thang]

there are people who like freemium mechanics

Wait, who likes freemium mechanics in a premium game? I'm not sure tolerate is the same as like.

[Digfox]

Just to say, whilst there definitely is botting going on that gets stuff voted up/down on Reddit (it'd be foolish to debate that) I'd encourage people to remember that there are people who like freemium mechanics, and those people don't feel deceived and aren't spending hundreds a month.

Of course, we might say those people have swallowed the kool-aid. That's a different thing. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that freemium mechanics are some kind of publisher conspiracy; these things have worked their way into games because there is a decent wedge of the public who, without complaining, are paying for them.

Sure but putting the bots or sock accounts aside, there were people getting hung up on the fact that the post must be misleading because you can't actually spend $6440 dollars (in this sense Ed Boons is technically correct) but of course the in-game shop will be getting loads of new content and already has 'pay to skip' currency in these time krystals (along with all the other convoluted free2play tactics). Whether these are all exclusively younger people that are more susceptible to freemium style games or genuinely ignorant is another debate.

That's not a reason not to oppose them. I dislike freemium mechanics in AAA games myself (it's one of the reasons I buy so few of them these days), but a lot of the vitriol I see from the "core" gaming populace does paint this as some sort of a conspiracy. That kind of stuff is probably also going on (loads of marketing is doing that now after all) but it's happening because it's making money. It takes a big backlash to give a bloody nose like Battlefront.

It comes down to case by case, but fans making noise is one of the few things left they can do. And I think points to a greater problem of lack of genuine communication between devs and fans. Microtransactions themselves aren't the problem. However building your game around them or making them exploitative and overly aggressive is.

[Asura]

Wait, who likes freemium mechanics in a premium game? I'm not sure tolerate is the same as like.

It's more the whole idea of "Games as a service", which freemium stuff borders with. There are loads of gamers who really like stuff like The Division, with its regular content updates and MMO-lite structure. Yes, they tolerate the currency shenanigans but they also see it as part and parcel with how those games work. They dislike single-player games or games that are basically a confined experience in a box as much as I know you dislike multiplayer games (assuming I haven't mixed you up with someone else).

[Dogg Thang]

It's more the whole idea of "Games as a service", which freemium stuff borders with. There are loads of gamers who really like stuff like The Division, with its regular content updates and MMO-lite structure. Yes, they tolerate the currency shenanigans but they also see it as part and parcel with how those games work..

But that's not what MK is. It's not what this is. This is a full premium product that already has a very expensive season pass version - so that regular content is already priced up on top of a full priced game... and then on top of all that it has freemium mechanics inside just to access stuff you've paid for. I can see the general point you're making and, yeah, I think it's tolerate more than like but even then I don't think it applies to this case.

[MrKirov]

As someone who owns the game, and has no attachment to MK whatsoever, I feel the need to clarify alot of points made here and on Reddit.

1) The game is actually NOT a microtransaction fest. The store itself only sells time crystals to let you buy skins outright- but doesnt let you buy any of the 7 (!!!) currencies in the game.

2) The issue with the game is the balance and sheer GRIND that the economy currently has- nothing to do with MTX, as you cant actually buy any of the currencies you are grinding for.

3) The issue is that there are so many currencies for different things. Coins for opening chests, souls for opening different chests, hearts for opening different chests again- and the rate at which you earn currency is low,compared to the costs.

4) The main way of gaining currency is playing- but primarily focussed no the Towers of Time- however the difficulty balance is overly hard, and makes it so that some matches are practically impossible even to the best players- however this has been changed already via a server side hotfix.

5) Coins come fairly easy, however souls come slower from the towers, maybe 10 at a time, and one box is 100 - 2000. Hearts are given only for performing fatalities- but you only get 1 per fatality. And all heart chests cost 250 to unlock.Too slow.

6) The loot boxes dont exist. There is a krypt in the game, which does have chests with items in- but they are not RNG based. All chests for every player has the same contents- but they are in a randomised position for every player- so if everyone opens everything, they will get exactly the same content. The heart chests are fixed locations for everyone though.

7) Everything is unlockable in game, there are no CoD style skins only available for purchase, the issue is the grind. However the time krystals (which you do earn in game too) can be used to buy skins outright rather than clearing the krypt.

The main issue with the game is not the currencies, or the microtransactions, but the insane grind they have balanced the game at. I dont think this is to push microtransactions, as you cannot actually buy an of the currencies. You can only buy time crystals to unlock a skin of your choosing outright. And easy fatality tokens. Which arent even needed as at the point of the fatality- you can actually pause the game and bring up the move list and see what you have to do- even online.

Theyve made changes to the towers difficulty already, and are uploading a patch to fix the economy, and also giving everyone a large amount of currency to make up for it- so personally I dont feel this is quite as scummy as the lynch mob is making it. And I HATE MTX, loot boxes and carved out content etc.

[Dogg Thang]

Man, I hope you're not writing that on your phone on one hand while having sex, dude, because I'm pretty sure that's all you do all day now.

[Asura]

But that's not what MK is. It's not what this is. This is a full premium product that already has a very expensive season pass version - so that regular content is already priced up on top of a full priced game... and then on top of all that it has freemium mechanics inside just to access stuff you've paid for. I can see the general point you're making and, yeah, I think it's tolerate more than like but even then I don't think it applies to this case.

Maybe, but I'd counter this by saying that whilst we might not see it as a GAAS game, the publisher probably really wanted it to be, and there are probably users out there who like the steady, tv-season-like stream of content. Capcom did it, for better or worse, with Street Fighter V. It might not have been the smash success of IV, but I could see a publisher looking at their example and seeing that as a model to try and work off and improve upon.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I hate to link another Reddit page for fear of turning this place into a Reddit Fest, but this is quite an interesting Video a guy has made arguing that GaaS games are fraudulent. I don't know much about these laws or if any of it stands up to investigation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/bhdkvo/games_as_a_service_is_fraud_by_accursed_farms/

There is a TL;DW on it too...which ill just copy here:

'Under several laws in many countries and continents, a game sold/F2P with MTX of any sort is considered to be selling GOODS, not Services (Subscription models are exempt due to having descriptions of when the service ends). Regardless of what EULAs say, the actual governamental law defines that goods need to be usable at any point after purchase and software, as a good, does belong to the one who purchased the product.

Ross's argument is that the "GaaS" is not a service, but acts as one in order to be able to shut down games after they start being unprofitable. He only requests that companies give players a reasonable way to play games after the servers are shut down.'

[Digfox]

As someone who owns the game, and has no attachment to MK whatsoever, I feel the need to clarify alot of points made here and on Reddit.

1) The game is actually NOT a microtransaction fest. The store itself only sells time crystals to let you buy skins outright- but doesnt let you buy any of the 7 (!!!) currencies in the game.

6) The loot boxes dont exist. There is a krypt in the game, which does have chests with items in- but they are not RNG based. All chests for every player has the same contents- but they are in a randomised position for every player- so if everyone opens everything, they will get exactly the same content. The heart chests are fixed locations for everyone though.

The main issue with the game is not the currencies, or the microtransactions, but the insane grind they have balanced the game at. I dont think this is to push microtransactions, as you cannot actually buy an of the currencies. You can only buy time crystals to unlock a skin of your choosing outright. And easy fatality tokens. Which arent even needed as at the point of the fatality- you can actually pause the game and bring up the move list and see what you have to do- even online..

Thank you. I do think that was one of the reasons the '$6,440' reddit post was quite illuminating, because it made a lot of these points. That is as much about the convoluted systems and grind. That said these freemium-style systems that are often found in games that are a MTX-fest.

That said questions/points back:

1. I believe with one currency I can completely skip the fights in Towers the reward players with items? The Towers that have been criticised for being too hard.
2. My understanding of the Krypt in MK11 is that unlike previous MK games the location of items in the gold coin chest is randomised for all players now (so in effect RNG based) so you can no longer share the location of certain gear, brutalities or cosmetics etc.
3. The in-game cash shop will very likely have new items introduced, and on timers so there is a possibility the in-game cash shop is 'light' for now and will grow over time, i.e. In a similar way Rainbow Six Siege's in-game shop has mountains or content even when compared to its launch.

[Digfox]

I hate to link another Reddit page for fear of turning this place into a Reddit Fest, but this is quite an interesting Video a guy has made arguing that GaaS games are fraudulent. I don't know much about these laws or if any of it stands up to investigation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/bhdkvo/games_as_a_service_is_fraud_by_accursed_farms/

There is a TL;DW on it too...which ill just copy here: ...'

Someone also linked to this Youtube video on Resetera. I haven't watched it (over an hour long!) but it sounds like it makes some valid points. Although I think the archiving and availability of older/shuttered games is a different conversation, albeit an important one. Certainly there are different levels of GaaS, that's for sure.

[MrKirov]

Thank you. I do think that was one of the reasons the '$6,440' reddit post was quite illuminating, because it made a lot of these points. That is as much about the convoluted systems and grind. That said these freemium-style systems that are often found in games that are a MTX-fest.

That said questions/points back:

1. I believe with one currency I can completely skip the fights in Towers the reward players with items? The Towers that have been criticised for being too hard.
2. My understanding of the Krypt in MK11 is that unlike previous MK games the location of items in the gold coin chest is randomised for all players now (so in effect RNG based) so you can no longer share the location of certain gear, brutalities or cosmetics etc.
3. The in-game cash shop will very likely have new items introduced, and on timers so there is a possibility the in-game cash shop is 'light' for now and will grow over time, i.e. In a similar way Rainbow Six Siege's in-game shop has mountains or content even when compared to its launch.

1) There are tokens that you can skip a single fight in a tower. I again, dont think they are purchasable, and they are earned in game. They dont skip entire towers, just a single fight within a tower, so its just incase theres a particularly hard fight or something its an option to skip. I havent earned/used any yet though. As I said, the difficulty of the towers has already been significantly reduced.

Also- the difficulty was not actually AI behaviour, but instead the combination of assists and unblockable attacks. So missles coming off screen constantly occuring every four seconds, that tracked, and were unblockable. Or an assist that would be used every 3 seconds- that kind of thing. It made it really cheap.

2) Yes, only the gold koin chests are randomised- the others are fixed positions, and those are the ones with character specific gear. Its kind of a half RNG I guess- all chests for everyone have exactly the same contents in- they are just in different places. But it does mean you you find a chest for say 3000 coins that has a skin in, if another player finds that chest and opens it they will also get that skin. The chest amounts vary alot so I guess thats not impossible.

3) Quite possibly! I would imagine so. I cant argue against them for something that hasnt happened yet though.

The main issue is the balance of the grind. Once the currency amounts are dramatically increased there wont be an issue- because outside of that currency balance, the game works exactly like Injustice 2, but with addressed concerns about random RNG in mother boxes resulting in people not getting skills they wanted. The fixed item content in boxes was supposed to resolve that I guess.

[Dogg Thang]

Personally, I think it's pretty simple: you don't get to claim game as a service when it is packaged and sold as a good. Pulling microtransactions of this type regardless of whether it's on the bad end or the worse end in a game that is not only sold in a full price package but also in a premium bundle with extra DLC already tramples over any grey area of what should be deemed acceptable.

And as for "for better or worse" with SFV, I haven't yet seen anyone make a case that it was for the better.

[Cassius_Smoke]

[MENTION=3332]MrKirov[/MENTION]
I haven't played the game, so i wanted to know; Does any of this add to the game? Is the game better for having it?
My thinking is that, If it isn't, you've got to ask why they've added it all in in the first place, if its not to fleece customers.
Having all these currencies and chests and stuff would be a major distraction for me.

[Digfox]

1) There are tokens that you can skip a single fight in a tower. I again, dont think they are purchasable, and they are earned in game. They dont skip entire towers, just a single fight within a tower, so its just incase theres a particularly hard fight or something its an option to skip. I havent earned/used any yet though. As I said, the difficulty of the towers has already been significantly reduced.

Also- the difficulty was not actually AI behaviour, but instead the combination of assists and unblockable attacks. So missles coming off screen constantly occuring every four seconds, that tracked, and were unblockable. Or an assist that would be used every 3 seconds- that kind of thing. It made it really cheap.

2) Yes, only the gold koin chests are randomised- the others are fixed positions, and those are the ones with character specific gear. Its kind of a half RNG I guess- all chests for everyone have exactly the same contents in- they are just in different places. But it does mean you you find a chest for say 3000 coins that has a skin in, if another player finds that chest and opens it they will also get that skin. The chest amounts vary alot so I guess thats not impossible.

3) Quite possibly! I would imagine so. I cant argue against them for something that hasnt happened yet though.

Yea, but ultimately multiple skip tokens allow a player to skip an entire tower. With regards to the in-game cash store NRS have already said they will rotate items so it's a given unfortunately.

I suppose like all these things it comes down to how much you enjoy the core gameplay but for me personally I suspect MK11 would be a better game with less of the convoluted currencies, RNG grind for items and in-game cash shop. There's a balance between allowing people to unlock the content they have already paid for and not giving it out too freely. And of course this is all offline PVE content, not online MP content.

That said I haven't purchased an MK games since the second one on the SNES! So I can only speak as an observer here.